Its a minefield...

[DuncanW]

Where would you send the Benin Bronzes back to?

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just a sign that conservative middle England

> couldn't give a toss about the above, and save

> their rage for those daring to question the

> appropriateness of statues to slave traders, or

> returning stolen treasures.

>

> Send them all back - Benin bronzes, Parthenon

> Marbles etc etc.

[malumbu]

Nigeria (where the ancient kingdom of Benin was situated) where they were looted following the destruction of the royal palace in 1897 by vastly superior (in terms of weaponry) British forces.

[DuncanW]

:)

[tedfudge]

Would the Benin bronzes not be safer in museums in the UK rather than in Benin where they could be stolen or looted etc... I agree they should be returned but look at what ISIS did in Syria to all the ancient sites etc surely they would be safer in the UK and other museums around the world. If they paid the countries a rental fee each year or bought the artifacts from the countries of origin that may also help some of the poorer nations get some much needed income etc..

Crime

Street crime such as robbery and mugging is a problem in Cotonou. You should avoid travelling alone and maintain a high level of vigilance, especially at night and in isolated areas, including beaches. Do not walk on the beach alone, at any time of day.

Pick-pocketing occurs in areas visited by international travellers (hotels, ports, railways, beaches, bars and restaurants). Avoid Dantokpa market after dark. Be alert to the risk of car-jacking both in Cotonou and on roads outside towns and cities. When you?re driving, lock vehicle windows and doors.

In general it?s better not to resist armed attack. The national police emergency number is 117 and fire is 118. You should get a police report if you report a crime

[DuncanW]

Ted,

Some reasonable points in there, but as Malumbu pointed out, they would go back to Nigeria, where they originate from, not the modern day nation of Benin.

Also, it's an objective fact that the bronzes were stolen/looted buy us in the colonial era - generally speaking you can't steal someone else's property and then just say "I can look after it better than you, anyway..." I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of that kind of logic.

It also falls down with the knowledge that Nigeria have c50 of the bronzes in domestic museum collections. They haven't been stolen.

[JohnL]

tedfudge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Would the Benin bronzes not be safer in museums in

> the UK rather than in Benin where they could be

> stolen or looted etc...

That's a bit UK centric - why is the UK safer than anywhere else. Things get stolen all the time on the UK by the rich and powerful. We have one of the worst records for stealing things so why should we have a reputation for being safe - the rich will want their stuff and they will take it and put it in vaults where no-one can see it or know about it.

Maybe some of our stuff would be safer abroad.

[tedfudge]

@JohnL

It's in a museum not somebody's house that can get broken into.. it's in a secure building with security guards video cameras etc.. did I once say it was right to steal anything ??? All I said was it maybe safer in a museum in the UK than in a museum in Nigeria that's even if it goes to a museum... do you think Richard Branson is going to go into the British museum and shove them in a carrier bag when you say rich and powerful ??

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56800763

[bodsier]

fascinating the amount of time spent discussing statues and slogans....a historical event happened recently, George Floyd trial and conviction....There lies the problem.....scratching the surface and reluctant to go in..why?

[TheCat]

im with some people and dont like random links....but this is sort of a high level chat......

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/27/blm-has-made-uk-race-relations-worse/

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> im with some people and dont like random

> links....but this is sort of a high level

> chat......

>

> https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/27/blm-has-m

> ade-uk-race-relations-worse/

In America you have many people saying there is a big problem but they identify the cause of this as not because of agitation by BLM but because they have recognised previous views were wrong.

Are America and Britain separating on this ?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/22/when-it-comes-to-public-opinion-on-race-its-not-1968-anymore/

[DuncanW]

Jesus College is returning a Benin Bronze to Nigeria.

This is the first to go back from the UK, looks like there will be more to come.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/15/cambridge-college-to-be-first-uk-return-looted-benin-bronze

[TheCat]

Yes, its still a minefield...

According to the Graun, criticism of will smith's actions on oscar night are probably driven by racism....FFS...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-outrage-about-will-smiths-slap-is-rooted-in-anti-blackness-its-inequality-in-plain-sight

[JohnL]

They're wrong - and he has apologised for the violence.

If you lose control at a certain trigger some people will press those buttons repeatedly for their own ends (and if Rock was doing that he should know better).

On the other hand if you sit in the front rows of many comedy shows you have to expect some sort of personal abuse may come at you (body shape, baldness (usually male pattern), glasses, height)

[Waseley]

The documentary on Blair and Brown was great, if painful at times, watching.

When presser punched the protester Blair was discussing this in his car and both the driver and security guard both immediately reacted with incredulance. Move on everyone, nothing to see.

[TheCat]

What?

[JohnL]

Well the guy did slap an egg on Prescott IRC - 15 years ago too so we have changed attitudes to violence.

[DuncanW]

Jesus College is returning a Benin Bronze to Nigeria.

This is the first to go back from the UK, looks like there will be more to come.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/15/cambridge-college-to-be-first-uk-return-looted-benin-bronze

 

More Benin bronzes being returned to Nigeria. This time from The Horniman Museum.

https://www.horniman.ac.uk/story/horniman-to-return-ownership-of-benin-bronzes-to-nigeria/

[TheCat]

Nice to read my OP.....standy by it.....