man befriending child in peckham rye park

[Saffron]

Gidget Wrote:

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> Saffron Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Gidget Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Does sound very odd. Now, don't all shout at

> > > once. Wonder why the 11 year old thought it

> > was

> > > OK to get in the car with the man?

> >

> > Children by their very nature are vulnerable

> and

> > easily manipulated by evil people who are

> (sadly)

> > skilled at doing such.

> >

> >

> > Children do make mistakes, but it's NEVER the

> > child's fault. They don't bring abuse

> > onthemselves or deserve abuse because they make

> > mistakes. Every parent surely tries to instill

> > caution in their child, but sometimes it isn't

> > enough.

>

> I did not say it was the child's fault, which you

> seem to be implying.

Your statement could by omission lead the reader to believe that fault lies either with the parent or the child. Particlularly as you asked directly:

...why the 11 year old thought it was OK to get in the car with the man?

Therefore my statement was simply in response to clarify the reason why a child would get in a car with a "stranger". And the reason is very simple. It is because evil manipulative people will prey on children who are vulnerable by their very nature. It's not because parents didn't educate them properly or because of any fault with the child.

You went on the give a very interesting story of how your mother educated you in this respect, and that is well and good for you. However, the fact that different parents teach their children in different ways does not mean that it is the parents' or child's fault when a child is abducted/attempted abduction. Your posts could imply as such, even if you did not mean them to do as such. You clearly thought your post would be provocative, as you prefaced it with "Now, don't all shout at once." That in itself is a curiosity, so thank you for coming back to clarify.

[Gidget]

Was listening to the Vanessa Feltz programme on BBC London for first hour this morning. She had the head of the NSPCC on. A caller phoned in and talked about her grandfather abusing her when she was small. She hadn't spoken about it before, but after she had children she refused to allow him anywhere near them. Eventually she reported him to the police and he was put on the Sex Offenders Register only as it was longer than 20 years. Apparently it took the cops three months to pay a visit to him. I did not know there was a time limit on sexual abuse. The NSPCC chap said they received many calls regarding family members carrying out abuse and then Vanessa cut him off. Very frustrating listen. He should be brought back on in order to discuss what to do.

[Jessie]

well said, saffron. We don't know this 11 year old or her family.

[Gidget]

Jessie Wrote:

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> well said, saffron. We don't know this 11 year old

> or her family.

The OP does. This posting has given rise to a lot of comments already, and will no doubt be discussed after school today or round the dinner table.

[Jessie]

very well observed

[yummumbums]

I am quite shocked by some responses on here. This child has been taught not to talk to strangers and never get in a car with one. This child would be the last child i would think of to do this sort of thing. She is a really sensible and intelligent girl. Her mother even told me last night that they had sat and watched a programme about this sort of thing and had a discussion about it. My view is if it could happen to this mum it could happen to any of us. When i left mum last night she had just got home from work and was going to contact the authorities, i never said she hadn't contacted anyone regarding this. I said i would put this on here for her as she wanted others to be aware. So let's remind our kids to be aware of strangers and not have a bitch about peoples parenting skills.

[Fabricio the Guido]

Offering lifts to total strangers and especially a minor, this must be an offence. I'd recommend you report it to the police immediately. Jim used to 'fix it' in the back of his limo.

[the-e-dealer]

offering lifts to strangers an offence? cobblers.

[Penguin68]

Offering lifts to total strangers and especially a minor

Bang goes decades of hitchhiking - obviously this is a potential concern but the asumption that all adults prey on all children which is inherent in this thread is both offensive to most adults and statistically wrong.

There are many reasons to 'befriend' younger people without it being creepy - it's quite common amongst men and women who have become separated from their own families, through perhaps divorce or even worse death, to want young people in their lives for perfectly 'safe' (if sometimes quite sad) reasons. Nowadays they shy away from this because of the public perception - but I certainly remember when I was a child in the '50s that some adults were friendly (in an entirely unthreatening and acceptable way) with teenagers - many scoutmasters etc. did that because they thought they were adding to general well being, not because they were kiddy-fiddlers.

Of course care is required, but an automatic assumption that any adult showing anything other than disdain (and probably fear) towards a child or adolescent is a criminal (or potentially so) is very sad.

[dulwichgirl2]

In the 50s communities were involved in other people's lives to a far greater extent than today. An adult could even smack an unknown child who was seen doing something naughty and the parents would support the adult's action. Neither of those things would ever happen today.

I don't know why the child hadn't mentioned it before now in any event if the guy and she had struck up their frequent communication.

My fear is that a large number of modern misses are going to get the idea that it is cool to have the world looking for them like that silly girl Megan (no doubt channelling Juliet) and be open to starting what they think are rebellious and genuine but are really completely inappropriate and even dangerous relationships, culminating in terrible tragedies.

I'm not saying this is happening here but seeing the ages involved reminded me of a dangerous craze that I am convinced is going to develop.

[civilservant]

Yes it could happen to any of our children, and that's why it's scary.

I'm entirely in agreement with Saffron that blaming the child is not the way to go.

Children are always keen to please their elders and any child will be flattered by adult attention - and of course children aren't always able to distinguish between what's appropriate and what's not.

Adults on the other hand do and have a duty to think carefully about how they engage with children.

I might think that as a fine upstanding citizen, I can offer a drenched child a safe ride in my car, and pah to the carping Aunt Sallys.

But I'd need to remember that if I did that, I'd be undermining every safety lesson from that child's parents. Not so simple after all...

[Loz]

civilservant Wrote:

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> Yes it could happen to any of our children, and that's why it's scary.

But please keep it in context. The number of children abducted and killed by strangers has stayed the same for about the last 40 years - on average about 11 per year. As a comparison, about five people per year are killed by being struck by lightning - but we don't run around with Faraday cages around us, do we?

By all means warn your kids of the danger, but really it is very, very (very, very, very) unlikely to happen.

(Mind you, on the other hand, members of your own family are statistically MUCH more of a danger to your child. Maybe we should have a big campaign on 'Relative Danger'!)

[Monkey]

Yummumbums - I am really shocked by some of the responses too... There are a lot of parents who are very confident about their parenting skills... Here's a story for them.

When I was 15, a stranger tried to get me into his car. And no, it was not an innocent lift. His eyes and mannerism said it all. My parents' warnings helped me go into automatic pilot, step away from the car, walk away... So far so good. However, me the good girl, streetwise and mature beyond her years, kept this completely secret, never told anyone until years later. I was ashamed (why I don't know), feared upsetting my parents, causing them to worry, to be sad... 20 years later, this reaction seems irrational. I can't really explain it. I sure wish I had spoken up.

Kids don't always behave rationally.

On another note, Dulwich2 girl, your comments about Megan are really quite obnoxious.

[dulwichgirl2]

How very charming of you Monkey.

Thank you for making me reread my post. I should have stated that the teacher is absolutely to blame and certainly should not have acted as he did. However the case got so much publicity, and people today like pr and celebrity, that i fear it will glamourise running off in crazy and dangerous circumstances. The girl on this occasion was fine but might not be in future.

[Jeremy]

Loz Wrote:

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> As a comparison, about

> five people per year are killed by being struck by

> lightning - but we don't run around with Faraday

> cages around us, do we?

No we don't - but we might take precautions. As a kid my dad told me to unplug the TV aerial when there was lightning. A bit OTT maybe, but better than frying your TV (and everything connected to it).

Never, ever getting in a car with a stranger is infinitely preferable to being unlucky enough to get in a car with the wrong person. Even if an adult means well, they'd be doing a disservice to the child by undermining this.

[El Pibe]

Years ago as a student I used to hitchike a fair bit.

I remember getting into a car at the gloucester roundabout on the M5 and the inside was decorated with gay porn.

I politely asked him to pull up and let me out, which he begrudgingly did, but it was a real ascending screechy violins moment.

Funnily enough on recounting the tale back up at university I met two others who'd had the same experience in the same gold audi on that route.

None of it stopped me hitchiking, but it makes you think that you are ceding control to someone who might have more nefarious intentions rather than chancing his arm that that'll be your thing.

Obviously this is something of an aside, I'm with Jeremy that a blanket ban for kids is the only sensible option, and I'm someone who normally complains about the pitchfork mentality on here over 'suspicious men'.

[ianc]

Can we please keep this to the incident mentioned and the kinds of guidance we should be using to help keep kids safe?

El Pibe, your stories of the car decorated in gay porn don't help. Most adults, most gay people, most people full-stop, are not a threat to kids and building up profiles of people that kids should consider "dodgy" doesn't help. It also verges on homophobia, so let's stop.

We're talking specifically about paedophiles here, who come in both genders and all orientations. They can also be family members or people already known to kids, rather than strangers. They're nigh-on impossible to spot, but telling kids not to get into a car with ANY stranger, is the message to teach them, surely? Stories of people we've individually found "dodgy" don't help.

[El Pibe]

Well, to be fair, nothing here is 'helping'.

Why any parent would give any qualification to the advice 'Don't get into a car with any stranger' is beyond me and frankly irresponsible.

There the argument ends, the only sensible advice 'go to the police' was done by the fourth post.

Otherwise nothing to see here, as usual.

Homophobic profiling...pillock!

[????]

...I'd be wary about getting into a car plastered with porn of any sort to be fair to EP

[El Pibe]

well indeed, I just didn't see it until I was sat down.

The nature of the porn was incidental to my concern about the situation, but it is an accurate description nevertheless and somewhat seared on to my memory.

[edcam]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> Years ago as a student I used to hitchike a fair

> bit.

>

> I remember getting into a car at the gloucester

> roundabout on the M5 and the inside was decorated

> with gay porn.

> I politely asked him to pull up and let me out,

> which he begrudgingly did, but it was a real

> ascending screechy violins moment.

>

> Funnily enough on recounting the tale back up at

> university I met two others who'd had the same

> experience in the same gold audi on that route.

>

> None of it stopped me hitchiking, but it makes you

> think that you are ceding control to someone who

> might have more nefarious intentions rather than

> chancing his arm that that'll be your thing.

>

> Obviously this is something of an aside, I'm with

> Jeremy that a blanket ban for kids is the only

> sensible option, and I'm someone who normally

> complains about the pitchfork mentality on here

> over 'suspicious men'.

An unrelated post about your discomfort about a gay man isn't helpful in the context of this thread, or in any context for that matter.

[El Pibe]

ffs, it has nothing to do with him being gay, it's about how getting into a stranger's car is a massively unkonwn quantity where you effectively lose control of the situation.

Can be risky as an adult, it's an unthinkable step to allow a child to take.

I'll be sure to spell everything out in big coloured letters for those of you incapable of parsing anything without leaping for the politically incorrect button. Idiots, no wonder I usually skulk in the lounge, at least they're generally a bit brighter in there.

[Saffron]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> ffs, it has nothing to do with him being gay, it's

> about how getting into a stranger's car is a

> massively unkonwn quantity where you effectively

> lose control of the situation.

> Can be risky as an adult, it's an unthinkable step

> to allow a child to take.

>

Agreed.

[Loz]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > As a comparison, about

> > five people per year are killed by being struck

> by

> > lightning - but we don't run around with

> Faraday

> > cages around us, do we?

>

> No we don't - but we might take precautions. As a

> kid my dad told me to unplug the TV aerial when

> there was lightning. A bit OTT maybe, but better

> than frying your TV (and everything connected to

> it).

>

> Never, ever getting in a car with a stranger is

> infinitely preferable to being unlucky enough to

> get in a car with the wrong person. Even if an

> adult means well, they'd be doing a disservice to

> the child by undermining this.

Which is why I said "By all means warn your kids of the danger" - that was the bit you cut out for some reason. In other words, yes it is imperative to warn your kids, but if you stay awake all night worried about paedos in the neighbourhood then you are overly worrying. Like civilservant's comment "Yes it could happen to any of our children, and that's why it's scary." It is a very, very unlikely occurrence.

So, yes, mitigate the danger. But don't lie awake at night worrying about it.

[civilservant]

Saffron Wrote:

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> El Pibe Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ffs, it has nothing to do with him being gay,

> it's

> > about how getting into a stranger's car is a

> > massively unkonwn quantity where you

> effectively

> > lose control of the situation.

> > Can be risky as an adult, it's an unthinkable

> step

> > to allow a child to take.

> >

>

> Agreed.

seconded

Loz, I appreciate the point about Faraday cages, but there are also all kinds of risks that need to be weighed up here.

Very very few children or young people end up suffering a fatal outcome (terrible phrasing i know and I apologise in advance to anyone who might be offended), but there are thousands who encounter predators in the way that Monkey and El Pibe have bravely admitted to. These are very traumatic events and children end up blaming themselves and suffering needlessly as a result.

BTW was I the only one who was completely gobsmacked to hear Michael Grade and David Hepworth dismissing the Jimmy Savile allegations on Ch 4 news the other day?