Some useful info related to Southwark, traffic, LTNs etc

[legalalien]

Here are the second two pages, including brief description of review process.

[first mate]

Not right they are doing cycle movement counts in summer months if that is the only counting that'll be done. It would seriously skew results.

[Spartacus]

Plus, I suspect that the cycling lobby will of course ensure that for the days the count is being done, non local cyclists would flood the roads then vanish again post the review.

Easy to skew numbers if you want to.

[tedfudge]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Plus, I suspect that the cycling lobby will of

> course ensure that for the days the count is being

> done, non local cyclists would flood the roads

> then vanish again post the review.

>

> Easy to skew numbers if you want to.

Very true spartacus

[Siduhe]

Just to say that the link to sign up to receive Southwark comms relating to Dulwich, East Dulwich and Champion Hill review process has been updated to expand the list of streets you can select as part of the drop down list to include some core streets in Dulwich Hill/Dulwich Wood, including Overhill/Underhill/Melford/College Road.

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/dulwich-review-registration-form/

[legalalien]

Bit behind this week, but here?s the link to info about tomorrow?s Council Assembly meeting

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=6775&x=1

Some public questions about LTNs (based on last meeting expect these may be given written answers offline), request by Dulwich area independent high street business to give evidence on the general local economy theme.

Other interesting things including an LD member?s motion advocating return of trams to Southwark.

At 6.2 on the agenda info about allowances paid to councillors, and LDs asking questions about whether / what ?loss of office? payment may have been made to the outgoing cabinet member for housing (after his Twitter scandal related departure).

[legalalien]

Agenda for Thursday?s Environmental Scrutiny Commission meeting now up with what looks like an entirely different parking briefing...

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=6957

ETA: the comparison with the original document looks like it will be telling

[legalalien]

Also an interesting summary of cycle hangar roll out and waiting lists on the agenda

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s94701/Cycle%20Hangars%20-%20Feb%202021.pdf

[snowy]

Does that suggest that 2000 people in the Goose Green ward alone have requested a cycle hangar place? And that there?s a waiting list of over 8000 people across the borough for existing hangars, with just under half of that in wards around east Dulwich?

There?s a comment to the diagrams that seems to say that they?re looking at new ways of tracking requests for cycle hangars as the demand is so high.

[Rockets]

It also seems to suggest that the council forecasted 100 hangars for the 20/21 financial year and only managed to install 55.

As I have been saying for some time the council seems unable to put the most basic infrastructure in place to support its strategic objectives - it has put the cart before the horse with the LTNs and should have been spending more time, money and effort installing bike hangars to satiate the demand for the ability for residents to store bikes than cameras to close off Dulwich Village.

It's really quite damning.

[Siduhe]

Agenda for Thursday?s Environmental Scrutiny Commission meeting now up with what looks like an entirely different parking briefing...

ETA: the comparison with the original document looks like it will be telling

I think the most telling part of the new report on CPZs (which does roll back considerably from the previous position that CPZs would be put in place borough wide) is page 11.

Notwithstanding the updated timetable which says that CPZs in Dulwich Village, Dulwich Wood and Dulwich Hill will be considered as part of the wider impact of LTNs - if you look at the map on page 11 it says "Programme subject to discussion with councillors" (not "Not Currently Programmed" as it does for other areas).

So there's still a central Southwark CPZ program planned for those wards but it's subject to further discussion (not necessarily consultation with residents). So something else that people really need to be engaging with their ward representatives on (whether they are pro or anti a CPZ in their area).

[snowy]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It also seems to suggest that the council

> forecasted 100 hangars for the 20/21 financial

> year and only managed to install 55.

>

> As I have been saying for some time the council

> seems unable to put the most basic infrastructure

> in place to support its strategic objectives - it

> has put the cart before the horse with the LTNs

> and should have been spending more time, money and

> effort installing bike hangars to satiate the

> demand for the ability for residents to store

> bikes than cameras to close off Dulwich Village.

>

> It's really quite damning.

You remember there was a little pandemic going on, so staff were probably furloughed? That seems to be reflected in the delivery timeline graphic

Glad to see you support the multi million investment (?8m if I?ve got my maths right).

[legalalien]

The thing is, a borough-wide CPZ is provided for in the Council's signed off Movement Plan and associated documentation from 2019(https://www.southwark.gov.uk/planning-and-building-control/planning-policy-and-transport-policy/transport-policy/policy-and-guidance-documents/movement-plan). Which was consulted on (although it passed me by completely). So rightly or wrongly, I think CPZ will be rolled out in some form across the borough - I think the earlier document was probably an accurate indication of the council's thinking/ planning.

I don't think I have a particular view on the idea of a CPZ tbh. I suspect the devil is in the detail as regards parking outside retail areas, permits for health workers etc?)

One of the politically controversial points seems to be the idea of removing free parking on estates (where they still have it). One of the LD councillors has been making the point for a while now that it seems strange that on some estates residents have to pay for cycle hangar space but not car parking - given the Council's stance on cars.

(she said, derailing her own "factual" thread).

[Rockets]

Well, to be fair, if they can put planters in (take some of them out and put in removable bollards when the emergency services complained), put new cameras up, new street furniture and signage, new right-filter traffic lights to support their LTNs then surely cycle hangars can't be that much of a challenge. It seems the priority within the council was to close the roads rather than actually support modal shift.

It seems the delay in rolling out more is: The delivery of a large number of cycle hangars has been delayed due to the pause on Traffic Orders being advertised as we have converted to the map based process.....whatever that means.

The council cannot expect modal shift to take place if they do not have the most basic infrastructure in place to support it - so yes, I am very supportive of the council investing money in doing this - I would much prefer new cycle hangers to new paving slabs.

At this rate it is going to take them years and years to get to satiate even 50% of the demand.

[Nigello]

Much of the council's work could be done for it if every individual did not make as many motor vehicle journeys, with or without consulting documents on "modal shift". I doubt that a cycle hangar being delayed will stop someone from making a quick trip to Tesco's. To labour the point - the only way of reducing traffic and emissions is to drive less.

[Rockets]

Sorry Nigello I disagree with this. If the infrastructure is not in place to support modal shift then it won't happen on a wide enough scale to have any lasting positive impact.

If you can't store a bike you won't own a bike.

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry Nigello I disagree with this. If the

> infrastructure is not in place to support modal

> shift then it won't happen on a wide enough scale

> to have any lasting positive impact.

>

> If you can't store a bike you won't own a bike.

Exactly. If you don't have access to a charging point, you're not going to change to an electric vehicle.

I tried and failed due to Southwark's woeful system of rolling out (or not) charging points. Unless, y'know, you have your own driveway.

[malumbu]

The usual excuses. Where there is a will there is a way. Love the people who have imaginative solutions for on street recharging. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8921085/Can-run-cable-charge-electric-car-pavement.html

And ditto for bike storage

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8921085/Can-run-cable-charge-electric-car-pavement.html

Some positivity please.

[slarti b]

ED - NAGAIUTB Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I tried and failed due to Southwark's woeful system of rolling out (or not) charging points. Unless, y'know, you have your own driveway.

Didn't legalalien post the minutes of the Soutwark environment scrutinee committee where they proposed banning on street parking for all cars except electric vehicles? Great for those nice big houses in Calton Avenue with their own driveways where they can keep their own petrol cars. And even better they have moved all that nasty school run traffic onto EDG and Lordship Lane.

[alice]

Limit that on street parking to roads with off street parking. Then you have a nice court bus lane.

[tedfudge]

If I pay road tax to use the my car that I pay insurance for and petrol which all go back to the government to spend how they choose why should I then have to pay to park my car in my street outside my house ? I'm already paying for the privilege of driving a car.... I use my car to drive to work at 11pm every night and then drive home around 6.30am and use it for work purposes so me using public transport like a lot of people is not feasible.. also while I've been driving around London for the past 15 years doing my job there are more buses ( empty ) than I've seen cars on the road.. Wednesday night on my way to work I was on blackfriars bridge there was 4 caris including mine and I counted 9 buses looked to have a total of about 11 people on board all buses in total..

[barbyonabike]

Road tax was abolished in 1937. There are more cars on the road than buses, and the buses are more efficient. Please stop whining.

[Raeburn]

Everyone who pays taxes (Council, Income) pays for the roads. It?s just that privately-owned vehicles are the least efficient, use of this money. Wish I had 10m2 storage outside my house for free!

[first mate]

But if you wanted it/ needed it you could have it. There are plenty of things we are taxed and pay for that do not necessarily benefit us individually.

[Sue]

tedfudge Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday night on my way to work I was

> on blackfriars bridge there was 4 caris including

> mine and I counted 9 buses looked to have a total

> of about 11 people on board all buses in total.

Surely not because we are in lockdown and people are asked to make essential journeys only, but the buses still have to run?

No, that would be a stupid reason for so few people on the buses .... 🙄