Train guard done for manslaughter

[Chillaxed]

Harsh? I think so.

[ClareC]

I agree, especially in comparison to the much leaner sentences handed out for intentional crimes.

[ianr]

> Harsh? I think so.

The prosecution? The charge? The verdict? The sentence?

[Voyageur]

Manslaughter seems a but harsh - seems more like negligence to me.

Feel very sorry for all concerned, how tragic :(

[uncleglen]

Harsh yes because she was 3 times over the drink drive limit (at age 16?)and she had mephedrone in her system and was obviously oblivious to the train moving- sympathies to her family but if she had been compos mentis she probably would have been able to stand up straight as soon as the train started to move- there is a clear photo from cctv showing her.

[the-e-dealer]

He was the flipping guard paid to guard people against danger

[Huggers]

The girl was not leaning against a moving train. The train was not moving until the guard blew the whistle for the driver to move it. It was his job to make sure the train was clear of people. If you see the pictures the platform was not busy.

She got off the train and then, realizing the wrong stop, turned and leant against the window while the train was stationary. The guard then blew the whistle for it to move.

It doesnt matter if she was drunk-the guard is there to stop the train moving until it is clear of people whether they are drunk, blind, deaf, not concentrating, pushed forward or crowded by others, disorientated, elderly, young- that's his job.

Why did he do this? the jury found him guilty and the judge gave him a serious sentence so i assume they suspect he did see her and he was trying to 'give her a fright'.

[Worker]

Aye, Huggers, if he did it to 'teach her a lesson' then fair cop, but as far as I know that wasn't the judge's reasoning; rather that he ought to have realised she was drunk and therefore not let the train go. And yes TED he's paid (poorly I'm sure) to keep people from danger, but one mistake and you're in the clink for 5 years?

[Huggers]

He didn't need to realize she was drunk, he needed to realize the train was still in contact with a passenger- who could have been drunk, slow, disabled.....it wasn't about judging the state of someone but the position of someone in relation to the train.

[Worker]

The word for me is 'judged'. He judged wrong. 5 years. I'm glad I don't have prison hanging over me for mistakes in judgment I make in my job.

[the-e-dealer]

Yeah let him off he was only NOT doing his job. I mean Airline Pilot who crashes his plane - only one mistake, Surgeon removes the wrong lung - only one mistake, Pharmacist only kills one patient for heavens sake why should we expect anyone to be responsible for ANYTHING

[civilservant]

Got off the plane at Gatwick late one night, just myself and three small girls, and went down to the station to catch a train home.

The train arrived, one of the little girls got on and stood in the door waiting for us, while I picked up baggage and the other two younger children.

But before the rest of us could board, the guard blew his whistle and the train left carrying one 10-year-old, all alone with no phone, money or ID.

When I confronted the guard, oh no, nothing he could do, it was just one of those things. He didn't deny that he had done wrong. Basically he shrugged, he couldn't be bothered, and he knew that I'd be too frantic with trying to find my child to take it out on him.

Luckily my story has a happy ending, but through no fault of the guard or his colleagues.

I was reminded of that experience when I read this story and I wonder at the people who are trying to find excuses for this guard.

[intexasatthe moment]

About 18 months ago I saw a guard at London Bridge signal a train to move in what looked to be a deliberate attempt to frighten a person who seemed to be trying to delay the train's departure by standing with one foot in the door . The guard had been arguing with the bloke moments before he signalled .

I don't know if the chap was drunk /confused /whatever , but it was very very hairy - everyone on the platform was screaming and the chap was running along with the train with his clothing snagged in the door . Somehow he managed to get free .

[malumbu]

I've happily cycled round both Victoria Station and London Bridge when drunk 15 or 20 years ago. Lovely surface, but a touch of water on and splat you are on the floor. Passengers rush to your attention and all rather embarassing. So who hasn't done daft things when pissed. Didn't deserve to die for it though.

[Huguenot]

The judgement was a very clear notice that the train guard knew EXACTLY what he was doing. It wasn't made by a judge, it was made by a jury.

That decision was made by 12 completely normal people who are just like all of us, except that they had heard the evidence. We haven't.

So with all due respect, worker, you're making a call on something you know very little about.

[ClareC]

He was undoubtedly in the wrong, im just shocked at the sentence in comparison to others. I believe the mother of baby P got the same sentence.

So sad for all concerned.

[DJKillaQueen]

Discrepencies in punishments for comparable crimes are a seperate issue though. The only issue here is whether or not a deliberate or neglectful act by the accused caused or led to the death of this woman. As someone has written above, a jury considered the evidence and decided it had. At that moment, the role of a train guard is to ensure it is safe for a train to leave a platform. And this tragic incident highlights just why there are guards on trains and platforms doing exactly this task. To be fair, his sentence is in line with drivers who cause death through dangerous driving, so perfectly reasonable in my view.

[RosieH]

For once I'm in complete agreement with Huguenot. The jury's verdict was unanimous. That's twelve people who heard the evidence, and every single one found him guilty.

It's pretty arrogant to assume you know better than those in receipt of the facts.

[Otta]

What Rosie said.

[the-e-dealer]

To be fair the jury didnt sentence him. The judge did and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with debating sentencing policy. But he was guilty and deserved punishnent. Whether prison is right is correctly another debate

[Huggers]

Also I hope it sends a clear message about personal responsibility and culpability to every moody bus driver who takes off impatiently before a woman and her toddler are properly on the bus (or actually separated and one left behind as happened to a friend in Lordship Lane with a driver immune to her entreaties), to every bus driver who slams on his brakes in a road ragey way while people are trying to get down the stairs, who chases down cyclists down bus lanes, as well as those who are responsible for our lives on trains and platforms.

[DJKillaQueen]

Very good point Huggers.

[Otta]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To be fair the jury didnt sentence him. The judge

> did and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with

> debating sentencing policy. But he was guilty and

> deserved punishnent. Whether prison is right is

> correctly another debate

Indeed. I think the punishment is harsh, but he deserved to be punished.

[ontheedge]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Also I hope it sends a clear message about

> personal responsibility and culpability to every

> moody bus driver who takes off impatiently before

> a woman and her toddler are properly on the bus

> (or actually separated and one left behind as

> happened to a friend in Lordship Lane with a

> driver immune to her entreaties), to every bus

> driver who slams on his brakes in a road ragey way

> while people are trying to get down the stairs,

> who chases down cyclists down bus lanes, as well

> as those who are responsible for our lives on

> trains and platforms.

Too true, I have asked cab drivers several times not to use their mobile when I am in their cab, another time was in a cab when the driver fell asleep and mounted the island in the middle of the road,he then thought it would be ok to continue the journey I insisted he let us out and phoned the cab company to get another cab and when I refused to pay they had the cheek to argue

[the-e-dealer]

Well he isn't locked up for public protection is doubt if he will be guarding any more trains. Rehab ? Well no so it is punishment and 5 years likely to be reduced to 2 1/2 with good behaviour doesn't. Seem very much for a teenage girlslife.