E--scooters

[Mountain walker]

-- moved topic --

[Pugwash]

Scooters, regardless whether e types or not seem to be a very popular choice for both adults and children. Adults scooting away on both pavements and roads - difficult to hear them and in the dark, to see them. (Had one come up on my nearside a few days ago, just as I was about to turn left. He/She totally ignored my indicator - I just saw them in time!)

Years ago my old aunt was knocked down by a young teenager who was riding a bike on the pavement. She fractured her hip and had difficulty walking after that. (She was already disabled having one leg shorter than the other and had to wear built up surgical boots) The youngster sped off whilst witnesses were calling 999.

[Blah Blah]

Rockets Wrote:

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> E-scooters create a couple of

> challenges due to the speeds and acceleration and

> their upright riding position creates a centre of

> gravity issue that means they can become unstable

> very quickly.

This is the issue. These scooters come in different sizes with different size wheels etc. The smaller they are, the more unstable they are, the poorer the braking torque etc. The twist and go accelerator is also an issue if it only goes from zero to top speed.

Without enforcement of regulation, the market is being flooded with cheap, smaller e-scooters and it is those that are going to lead to some casualties. Sure, there are casualties with all forms of road use. But that does not mean we should throw safety out of the equation and not have these discussions.

[bob]

I have had a reply from the Police re my enquiry concerning E scooters,it has been

passed on to our local Roads and Transport Policing Team so they are aware and can action as appropriate.

Bob S

[bagpuss]

The issue I have is that they are hard to spot.

Riding on pavements and also roads. They don?t follow the traffic light system or have any visibility or light

They are dangerous for the rider but also pedestrians

Was nearly hit by one today

I?m partially sighted and its a nightmare avoiding them when they don?t have high vis on

Trying to navigate the pavements with the leaves is bad enough

[fishbiscuits]

I think they're a great way of getting round a city, but it's a matter of figuring out how they fit into our infrastructure. They go a similar speed to bikes, so using in cycle lanes seems sensible - but the network has a long way to go. They're dangerous for pedestrians on the pavements. They're vulnerable on roads, as they're unable to take bumps and potholes (and are unfortunately often ridden recklessly). So at the moment.. it's a bit of a tricky one.

[Nigello]

It isn't tricky - people who are breaking the law, uninsured and in danger of falling off and hurting themselves and others must be fined. These are fast machines and those riding them, as far as I have seen, are mainly young and unaware of dangers - if they were they would not be speeding down roads with no helmet, no lights; those doing the same on footpaths with small children hanging onto the handlebars are even more stupid and selfish. I hope the police will take action and be consistent as I don't want anyone close to me - or myself - being injured by someone with no insurance.

[nxjen]

In theory I think they?re a good idea. In practice, they?re a nightmare for other road users and pedestrians. I?ve narrowly avoided being knocked down by one a couple of times on the pavement, they come towards you silently and at speed with no warning and not a lot of care taken by the rider.

[Blah Blah]

Also, how on earth do police catch one if they want to enforce the law?

Some of this is down to people being priced out of safer forms of transport, especially for the young. Insurance companies have made driving a pipe dream for the young, unless they have parents who can pay for their insurance or incredibly well paid jobs. So for me, it is more than being about addressing illegal vehicles, but also about asking questions around options for people who want to use the roads, get about inexpensively.

[Pugwash]

What legal address would you have if knocked down and injured by a scooter being used on the pavement, or for the sake of argument, a cycle being ridden on pavement. Neither rider is likely to have insurance. other than house insurance .

I was reversing my car into my hard standing yesterday - clearly indicating and reverse lights working, and noticed out of the corner of my eye that a adult male cyclist who had been cycling on the pavement, getting very agitated by my actions as though he had right of way!

[fishbiscuits]

Nigello Wrote:

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> It isn't tricky

I meant that despite them being a good idea in theory, figuring out how to enable their safe and legal use is tricky.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

You could sue them. They could also get a ticket from the police but that doesn't help you.

It doesn't help that most early adopters of these things have been kids and dimwits, both groups know for acting inconsiderately.

[Seabag]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

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> You could sue them. They could also get a ticket

> from the police but that doesn't help you.

>

> It doesn't help that most early adopters of these

> things have been kids and dimwits, both groups

> know for acting inconsiderately.

Go into the city, plenty of seemingly bright smart people on them, that?s even with the place near empty. So it looks like these things are here to stay, maybe we find a way to live with them.

They are potentially lethal though, much like living is. Dare I say, they are in some way a little bit thrilling to ride, if you like that sort of thing. And like all of these things; motorcycles, bikes, skateboards, horses even. It?s only when you hit the deck that the thrill of them reminds you of what a tool you?ve been thinking how ?good? you are at riding your chosen death trap.

[malumbu]

Yep exactly. Like in the film trainspotting - why do we take heroin, because it is wonderful (more colourful language used). Before we queue up to demonise all e-scooters, perhaps we should have a go on one. Incidentally not fond of them, just being a pragmatist.

Mate has a 30 year old Citroen AX sport thing, goes like the clappers, doesn't stop and in a collision with a modern vehicle would disintegrate.

[peckman]

They are suppose like any form of transports there are idiots with them and considerate drivers..although seems the former is in the majority . I've had close calls as with them as a cyclist, pedestrian and motorist . Doesn't help that uniform of choice seems to be all black with balaclavas it seems . Helmets should be mandatory on them

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"They are potentially lethal though, much like living is."

Living is invariably lethal (with one possible exception).

"Before we queue up to demonise all e-scooters, perhaps we should have a go on one."

I regularly ride scooters - electric and manual. It's the small front wheel, poor brakes and hard tyres that makes them a much riskier proposition than bikes.

[Blah Blah]

Which is why I think the answer is partly in addressing design and standardising a few things to maximise safety. A bigger front wheel would be one. Standards on brakes and speed and acceleration could be another. Even handlebar and platform size. Wider handlebars alone make it harder to zip between traffic. Standardisation would also make it easier for police to determine between legal and illegal ones.