No room at the Inn:Turned away from Goose Green Toddler group at Christmas.

[leecass]

I took my 19 month old son to Goose Green Toddler group an hour ago, which claims it's a drop-in, so he could spend an hour or so having fun. At the door I was greeted by a hard-faced woman who said it was a Christmas party and that I hadn't brought food or a present. At first she said I could come in then looked me up and down and said that actually, there was no room.

Now I'm not a Christian but I was brought up a Methodist in a deprived area of Hull. I cannot imagine the church I went to as a child turning somebody away at Christmas. I'm not an emotional man but when I had to put my sons coat back on in the lobby and tell him we couldn't go in and play I almost burst into tears. This comes off the back of being turned away from a toddler group at the East Dulwich Tavern last week, which also claims it's a drop-in, because there was no room.

After spending the last 6 months in East Dulwich I am frankly appalled by children's service in the area. Most of them are just rackets with poor facilities ran by people trying to make an easy buck. The good ones, such as Cheeky C's and Albrighton centre deserve praise but the rest are substandard.

I also go to the toddler group at the church on Belleden road sometimes. They have poor facilities but they do what they can. The reason they have few toys is that it's not patronised by the wealthy yummy mummies. In fact I've only ever seen one white person there in the whole time which speaks volumes. They deserve donations of toys so maybe think about giving it to them instead of the high end seances.

I'm a large, white northern man and I suppose I look intimidating to some or that my face doesn't fit. Maybe those are the reasons why my son and I were turned away from a Church at Christmas. There have been many occasions when I've gone to an event and it's as though I'm a stranger walking into a cult. A lot of people are unwelcoming and unfriendly and I see other people who feel the same. Mothers who come in to places for the first time and attempt to get to know people but they are hardly given the time of day. They sit in the corner looking sad and few return again. It's heartbreaking.

To say I'm utterly disgusted is an understatement. The whole scene needs a complete overhaul and I am sick to my by back teeth of faux snobs, badly ran playgroups and the illusion that East Dulwich is some kind of Mecca for activities.

[maritap]

Must say I agree with you, a lot of these playgroups are starting up and charging an arm and a leg to get in for approx 45mins. Albrighton and Cheeky Cs are very good as uve mentioned. What is a drop in if your not able to drop in. Totally agree.

[matnurse1983]

Hi Leecass

I'm so sorry that you were turned away. I fully understand how hard it is when you've spent all morning telling your child you were going to a particular activity only to have to change plans last minute.

Popular East Dulwich groups get so full. I often found myself queuing at least half an hour before the start time. Goose Green is so popular that people are turned away almost every day.

Perhaps the lady you met at the door was having an off morning. I do hope that she reads this too as people sometimes need a reminder of the effect that their words and attitude can have.

I work as a nanny and make a point not to clog up the parent groups. I am now part of a well established break-away group of nannies and mums who meet on a weekly basis.

If you feel confident enough, I would have a chat with other mums and dads and arrange a couple of play dates. If I spot you I'll say hi. :)

I'm not saying don't attend groups, everyone needs somewhere to escape to. I also agree that there are brilliant groups that get overlooked. Perhaps we should start a praise section on the forum for baby and toddler groups

I hope that you found somewhere warm and welcoming to play and that you don't get too much backlash after your vent.

Take care

D

[Bellenden Belle]

I actually went to the Goose Green Toddler group this morning but decided not to go in. I was late (as always) and looking through the door I could see Father Christmas and realised it was their "christmas party". To be honest I turned away because I suspected people would have been asked to bring food and having not been before, it would have felt wrong to suddenly turn up to the party empty handed. I'm not saying they were right to turn you away at all, just that this is probably an unusual time of year when regular activities are superseded by parties.

I hotfooted it to Beas Baby Bop at Rye Books instead.

But I do think we are really well provided for in the area. A lovely mixed group, with plenty of toys and people from all backgrounds, takes place at All Saints, opposite Peckham Rye train station. The organisers make a real effort to welcome you when you first come and people are very friendly. It's free too.

I like Cheeky C's a lot but then my little one is under 1 and so it costs ?1.50, I do wonder about ?4 entry for those older than that. I haven't tried it but I've also heard good things about the newly re-opened one o'clock club in Peckham Rye Park.

[simonethebeaver]

The baby and toddler group at St Augustine's on One Tree Hill is having its Christmas party next Tuesday morning from 9.30am. It's ?1.50 for one child (any age) and parent (50p for each additional child), and that includes a drink for the adults and a snack and juice for the children. It's really friendly and I'm sure would love to see you and your son - I don't think there'll be Santa but there'll definitely be mince pies. There's usually a couple of dads around as well as mums and childminders/nannies. Obviously it's not in central East Dulwich but we've been going there for several months and have a great time.

[PippaD]

I am writing to defend myself and the toddler group

today was indeed our christmas party, a ticketed event.

Anyone who as ever been to our group knows we are NON PROFIT and have limited nuber of spaces. Our fees cover the hiring of the hall and consumables.

Leecass, I did ask you, along with another parent, to wait in the lobby until all the people with tickets were registered and I could check numbers. It just so happens there was space and the parent got in, as would have you however, you had already left!!

I am sorry that both your child and you were upset, and that is never our intention but sometimes we do have to turn people away as, if we go over our numbers, we can be asked to leave due to fire regulations

I think it is unfair off you to paint us as such a un christmas group whilst we were holding our FREE xmas party

I hope this doesn't put you off trying us again when we come back in January. Please do be aware we will still have limited numbers and it works on a first come first in basis, no saved places.

Merry christmas

[oimissus]

Wow, you sound angry. I understand your frustration, but at the same time I'm not sure what you're expecting - the one today sounds like the woman didn't handle it well, but in general, if a group is full it's full, they can't just magic up more room or cram the children in so no-one can turn around, which is what you seem to think should have happened. All Saints on Blenheim Grove is lovely but I've seen people turned away from the first session because it's been full - they're not being unfriendly or unchristian, they simply can't safely fit more children in. But the second session is quieter. Same with Tippee Toes, a fantastic group but there has to be a limit on numbers else it becomes unworkable. The good thing about this area is there is a lot of choice, have a look at the ED Tots website which lists many of the groups and classes going on daily.

I do know what you mean about feeling left out. I don't think people are being mean, they are focussed on their children or meet up with parents they know already, or perhaps are just shy. I've sometimes had to force myself to stick things out because my daughter enjoyed it, and that's the main thing.

Keep trying out different groups and you'll definitely find some that you and your son like and you can get into.

[KatDew]

Just to add whilst I understand your annoyance I don't think you were 'turned away from a Church at Christmas'. The goose green centre whilst attached to St John's, is hired out during the week. The groups that are run out of the goose green centre are mostly not affiliated with the church

[matnurse1983]

Lesson one: get to groups early. The Rye Oak drop in groups often get full up quickly.

[fishfoot]

I would like to point out that the "hard faced woman" as you so rudely called her in your post is my wife and to be honest with you she does not intend to turn any one away from the toddler group ,the group did have its Christmas party today to which I believe was informed to the parents who turn up regularly but as she has pointed out with the post if you had waited you would have been warmly welcomed .

My wife has been doing the toddler group there for a while now and she does not get any money for holding it as the costs are to cover the hall and refreshments provided on the day and also I thinks tarnishing east dulwich toddler groups as being for the "yummy mummies" is wrong a lot of the time it is for the residents who need that time to have adult company when partners are at work or childminders to be in contact with other minders.

[minder]

People don't seem to realise that most toddler groups are run by volunteers so it's not people trying to make a "fast buck" as leecass puts it. Also saying that most of the groups are substandard isn't very nice as a lot of people work hard to keep groups going for the community.

As said before some groups just cover their costs with the hire of hall, buying stuff for activities, tea/coffee/biscuits and as at Christmas, maybe getting an entertainer, father christmas and presents for the kids.

Places like Cheeky C's and all the music classes like Whippersnappers, Monkey Music etc. obviously are a business so have paid staff, like the Albrighton.

I do feel for you being turned away (I've been turned away from groups in the past but for different reasons) but as PippaD explained, if you've not been before and turn up at a Xmas party then I'm sure you can appreciate she had to think about numbers etc. and wasn't having an "off-morning" as put by somebody else. It takes quite a bit of planning on a normal week at toddler groups. Getting there early, setting up tables, toys, etc. song-time. Only yesterday morning I was pushing a double buggy also loaded up with a big cd player, 28 wrapped presents, food and other stuff for an Xmas party at a group I run.

I'm sure your 19 month old has forgotten about this morning so hope you can go back to the toddler group in the New Year to start afresh.

[bawdy-nan]

There's something splendid and something ghastly about the groups - all kinds. When you're toddler stage it's often all there is and the vehement bonding and rules make for an appealing and unwelcoming experience especially if you (or your child) are any way outside of the norm. I sympathise. It continues at the school gates (which can be both marvellous and terrifying; supportive and ostrascising) but as your children get older its less consuming.

When mine were small I tried a few groups and found them impenetrable. We played in parks and at home mostly.

[Saffron]

Sorry you had a bad experience, leecass. It's never nice to hear that anyone was upset, even though it's now apparent from other posters that that wasn't the intention.

I mostly avoided drop-in groups for many of the reasons you listed. It can be upsetting to be turned away if the groups are full, and sometimes groups have irregular events of which non-regular users are unaware. Also sometimes it's harder to make consistent friendships when groups have transient make-ups.

If you want to have another try at some different drop-in groups, there are many others in the areas. You just have to search for them. Many are listed in old posts on the Forum.

Also, look a little further afield than ED. The Crystal Palace 1o'clock club is wonderful, and it's not very far by bus from ED and surround. I've always found the staff there very friendly and welcoming, and it's not expensive just a few ?s. The coffees are nice, not expensive. They have snacks for sale. It's very clean, with lots of toys and books. There's always an interesting mix of people there too.

Think again about joining a sessional playgroup too, maybe? They're not all money-making rackets. We loved Baby Sensory when my daughter was under-1 yo. It was a pity no one was hosting the Toddler Sense groups in the area when she outgrew Baby Sensory. After trying a few Toddler groups, Boppin' Bunnies was by far my favourite and my daughter's favourite too. http://boppinbunnies.co.uk/Boppin_Bunnies_Site/Boppin_Bunnies_Home.html

You might also like Tea Dance for Little People, a social enterprise focused on providing creative play to families with young children. They have several winter events at various locations, not expensive but you need to book in advance: http://www.tdlp.co.uk/ .

Try not to be disheartened. Hope you find a group to suit you and your LO.

We're in Brockley (SE4) just off Hilly Fields park, you're always welcome to have a playdate with us sometime. xx

[Bouncy]

Hi Leecass...I'd also recommend Trinity Tots on the South Circular if it's not too far out of your way (might be quite easy, depending whereabouts you are)...very friendly, inclusive, and welcoming, really nice non-cliquy atmosphere and mix of people...

[si_fry]

Hi, I'm not much of a poster on here but thought I needed to say something in defence of the lady who runs this group and the group itself. I've been going to the goose green group every Thursday for the last six months with my daughter.

I'm a white northern man, and although I've found it a little difficult to break in to some of the cliques that exist at some playgroups in the area I've always had a good time at this group. I was behind you in the queue and I really don't think you're intimidating, so I think you can stand down the indignation. also, the suggestion that this group is full of "yummy mummies" is something of a nonsense. It's about 80% Nannys, some mums, one grandma and me most weeks.

I think there are a few things you need to consider:

1. The lady who runs the group can be a bit direct in her manner at times, but she's trying to organise a group of 30ish carers and children, so she can hardly sit around and have a chat with everyone as theyre queuing to get in, even on a normal week - the kids are all desperate to run in and play.

2. It was the Christmas party. The regular group members had all brought food and a present for their child to give to the Santa stand in. Is only fair that she let those people in before you.

3. If you had stuck around, as was suggested, you would have been able to get in. Maybe if you removed the large chip from your shoulder you'd get through the door next time

[emsiemcb]

I've just come across this - I didn't see it back in December. I just wanted to add that the lady who runs the playgroup used to be my son's child minder and she is lovely. She does the toddler group voluntarily and is certainly not the sort of person who would want to make anyone feel uncomfortable or unwelcome.