Sir Kier..the shifty ex-husband.....?

[JohnL]

I'm reading so many things about Boris (Custard Creams and the like) I'm not sure how much of it is made up.

Since John Majors time the country has changed so much as nobody really cares about sleaze.

[malumbu]

Major, he never had any affairs.

Heath, a moratorium on his private life (not saying anything wrong with it, but a different time)

Wilson, a Russian Agent?

John Profumo, it's a Harrow/Oxford/Bullingdon Club sort of thing

Expect there has always been sleaze, but the current PM seems to have more wrong about him in terms of professional standards than the last dozen PMs combined.

[Seabag]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Major, he never had any affairs.

>

> Heath, a moratorium on his private life (not

> saying anything wrong with it, but a different

> time)

>

> Wilson, a Russian Agent?

>

> John Profumo, it's a Harrow/Oxford/Bullingdon Club

> sort of thing

>

> Expect there has always been sleaze, but the

> current PM seems to have more wrong about him in

> terms of professional standards than the last

> dozen PMs combined.

Wasn?t Major bonking Edwina Curry ?

[Seabag]

Anyways, seems bonking Boris was having an intimate relationship with Jennifer (like anyone believed otherwise) all along, the lying cnnut.

Even so, the Prime Minister believes he acted with ?integrity and honesty? as London Mayor during his affair with Jennifer Arcuri ( bar the lying about bonking her/ taking her on trips/ getting her money/ having a relationship with her).

But in all honesty, I?m not sure KS is up for keeping up with Boris on this front, letting him do ?being Boris? in the best way he, and only he can do.

Remind me please, who was the other global leader who shagged, lied, deceived, ran a populist government recently, you know the one, the dodgy hair do liar ...?

[malumbu]

I was being facetious - although Major never acknowledges this in his memoirs!

There was a great episode of Spitting Image, one of Thatcher's Cabinet (Hurd?) was having sexual intercourse over a desk if I remember correctly. Thatch shouts "Douglas, what on earth are you doing". "Getting a standing ovation in the Commons Prime Minister" - in reference to Cecil Parkinson's return to politics. Please do correct my memory.

[philosophie]

Right: Let's bring down their leader

Left: Let's bring down our leader

Every. Single. Time.

[????]

You run that past Theresa May? Or further back Maggie Thatcher?

[JohnL]

Yes but Sir Kier hasn't lost his voice, then got handed a P45, then had letters drop from their key presentation yet.

Actually I wonder whether that was a satire now, cleverly set-up by May and her advisers.

[TheCat]

Could he have handled the first 48 hours or so post election results any worse?

[Alan Medic]

A reshuffle doesn't necessarily equate to sackings, as most of the media would like you to believe.

[TheCat]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> A reshuffle doesn't necessarily equate to

> sackings, as most of the media would like you to

> believe.

At some point, Labour supporters will have to realise its not always the medias fault:).....As I think we could say that Angela Rayner and her team have played the media like a fiddle over the weekend....

[Blah Blah]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Could he have handled the first 48 hours or so

> post election results any worse?

In a word, no.

[Blah Blah]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At some point, Labour supporters will have to

> realise its not always the medias fault:).....As I

> think we could say that Angela Rayner and her team

> have played the media like a fiddle over the

> weekend....

Most Labour supporters do not blame the media though. You are conflating a small section of the party membership, who were devoted Corbynites, with Labour supporters per se. It is Labour's move away from aspirational social democratic meritocracy, that is shedding them support.

[Droid]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> It is Labour's move

> away from aspirational social democratic

> meritocracy, that is shedding them support.

I agree with most of your analysis on the topic but I'm not convinced about Labour's "move away from aspirational social democratic meritocracy" bit.

Aspirational meritocracy is very much the Conservative's home ground whereas Labour have been more committed to broader Socialist principles.

[malumbu]

The media had it in for Corbyn, and the media has helped boost the current Prime Minister's ratings. Whilst many people no longer watch TV news, or read the dailies hard copy or on line, stories will get recycled through social media.

Not that that was the reason Labour were so poor last week, but it has helped cement the PMs brand over huge swathes of the country. Just a factual posting, rather than excuses.

[diable rouge]

At the last election I knew a few established Tory voters who didn't want to vote for Johnson but equally couldn't vote for Corbyn.

Has that now changed with Starmer?

Interesting thoughts on Starmer from ex-Tory MP Nick Boles...

First, the bleeding obvious, he?s not exactly charismatic or exciting.

But he was dealt the worst hand imaginable - the Labour Party after Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit and the meltdown in Scotland - and he has played it remarkably well.

He has broken the grip of the far left on the party machine and policy process.

He has repudiated the anti-semites in the Labour movement and won the cautious respect of the Jewish community for doing so.

He has steered a fine line between broad support for the government during an unprecedented crisis (Covid) and forensic opposition of the worst examples of incompetence, waste and delay.

He exposed the PM?s hypocrisy and duplicity over the Downing St parties but shrewdly waited until the police had issued the PM and the Chancellor with fixed penalty notices before calling for their resignation.

He has been forthright in his support for Ukraine?s resistance against Putin?s aggression and used it to reaffirm traditional Labour values of patriotism and and the just use of military force in the defence of democracy and freedom.

He has manoeuvred his most impressive MPs into the most important jobs and, after a bumpy start, found a way to harness the prodigious political talents of his deputy.

Finally he has engineered a clever accommodation with the Liberal Democrats which should ensure that both parties can enjoy some of the benefits of an electoral pact while avoiding its undoubted risks and costs.

I?d call that a pretty impressive scorecard. He?s not a political wizard. Not an Obama, a Clinton or a Blair. But I reckon he?ll be Prime Minister after the next election and deserve to be.

[TheCat]

"I knew a few established Tory voters who didn't want to vote for Johnson but equally couldn't vote for Corbyn"

I'd probably fall into this demographic (although might quibble on the 'established' label, as have votes both ways in the past)....but either way, last election, I couldnt and didnt vote for either major party.

Given im the one that started this thread its safe to say that Sir Kier wasnt doing much for me a year ago. I'd have to say that he's still not doing a great deal for me, as the majority of his acheivements (as listed above) seem to be mostly about internal labour politics, which dont really concern or interest me at all.

All that said...his initial strategy of just showing competence, and hoping BoJo imploded seems to perhaps be paying off to some degree. Also, if the last 12 months or so if internal labour wrangling has been a win for him, then that might allow him more bandwidth to focus externally, and perhaps start to reach out/make an impact in a positive way with voters simialr to myself...

The assessment above (from the ex tory MP) seems fair. Although part of me thinks by voting for Sir Kier, it is sort of like being young and single, and "settling" for a new girlfriend/boyfriend becuase you cant find anyone better. But on the other hand, if the alterntive partner is a narcissistic douche, incapable of honesty...then perhaps settling isnt so bad...

I dont know. After that stream of conciousness...prob reasonable to say the jury is still out for me...but i'll watch with interest....