How many red crosses on the Union flag?

[malumbu]

Interesting to see that an Olympic Gold medal winner did not know the answer (yesterday's celeb who wants to be a millionaire) and similarly half the audience.

Yet in Northern Ireland 'loyalists' are rioting over the flag not being continually flown over the City Hall.

The answer is easy, well at least I thought.

[Lowlander]

Two red crosses - St Patrick's and St George's

Did she get the answer right in the end!? This is elementary stuff.

[DulwichFox]

There are Three crosses in the Union Flag..

St. George's Cross,

the flag of England

http://www.know-britain.com/general/images/st_george_cross.jpg

St. Andrew's Cross,

the flag of Scotland

http://www.know-britain.com/general/images/st_andw_cross.jpg

St. Patrick's Cross,

the flag of Ireland

http://www.know-britain.com/general/images/st_patk_cross.jpg

http://www.know-britain.com/general/union_jack.html

Oh. So the question was Red Crosses. Well never mind cannot win them all

Fox

[maxxi]

There's a cross of St David too, making an update/combo of all four patron saints crosses look maybe something like-

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhow0sxKRDuE7HTHk79c92nvkzuYBDr2z7MtF9AH3T-Rx4Ec6Z9w

... ooooh, there's jazzy for you man!

[steveo]

And if the Scots have their way it will look like this:

http://spoot-shoot.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/disunion-jack.html

[malumbu]

The contestents were Greg Rutherford, British long jump Gold medal and an older bloke. I am not having a poke at Rutherford, as half the audience got it wrong as well. I just thought that it was something that we all learnt at school - the three crosses of the countries that make up the UK (Wales doesn't count at of course it is a principality).

I thought it was ironic on day that they actually flew the Union flag in Belfast, that so many people in England didn't know what it was all about. Discuss.....

If the Daily Mail had their way they would of course deport all those that got the question wrong. Good think too!

[Huguenot]

That was a bit *whoosh* malumbu, are you saying it's a good idea that people who can't explain the Union Jack are deported?

I'm quite pleased that our nation doesn't chug on about flags like a bunch of retarded medievalists. It's pathetic.

Half the world speaks Eglish as a primary or functional language, so I can't really imagine that anyone outside of a housing estate bully gang imagines a flag is good for anything.

[Top Banana]

Well, I would imagine there are lots of serving and ex-service people who are immensely proud of their flag. I know I am so I must be in a housing estate bully gang.

[Huguenot]

I hope you will not misconstrue my views as disrespect for your service and your sacrifice Top Banana.

War itself - the acquisition of territory, resources and the subjugation of people through violence and intimidation is an exceptionally medieval pursuit. The flag has a role to play within that context.

I don't believe that the application of military doctrine and practice in civil life could be described as anything other than medieval. It is most likely to be applied by paramilitary organizations, or those with aspirations to achieve power through violence and intimidation.

The UK still retains its 'Cool Britannia' attributes in South East Asia, and the flag design is still worn here by bright young things as a avidly as Brazil shirts used to be worn in London - a symbol of life and energy.

So maybe it does have a use - but that certainly doesn't involve tribal allegiances and a weapon of deportation.

[malumbu]

No I was making an obtuse comment on nationality tests, whilst having a dig at a right wing 'black top' tabloid, and trying to bring what I see as ignorance and bigotry in Northern Ireland. Clearly three threads in one.

I liked the good old days when the national anthem was booed at Wembley matches, and fans paraded union flags rather than the flag of St George. Non of this nonsense Sheffield Wednesday brass band playing rule Britannia and God Save the Queen.

And then Billy Bragg really confused me.

Now that is five subjects on one thread.

I need to get myself a bottle of good English Ale. Oh my word my local supermarkets don't sell any. That's another two subjects related to being English, which is way down the list of how I would describe myself. Two more subjects.

But I did know how many red crosses there was in the flag of the Union.

[BrandNewGuy]

On a related issue, the problem with complaining about the lack of Wesh representation in the Union Flag is that there wasn't a Welsh flag until relatively recently. The cross of St David is in all likelihood a 20th-century invention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saint_David) and the "traditional" dragon flag in its current form is also 20th-century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Wales)... Which is not to say that there isn't an argument for incorporating a Welsh element, but it contradicts the idea that there was some sort of imperialist English conspiracy to exclude a Welsh element. A united Wales as we currently understand it simply didn't exist before its annexation.

[El Pibe]

plenty of english ale for sale, are you suggesting none of it's good?

[Mick Mac]

"The Union Flag is sometimes known as the Union Jack after its creator, James I of England, James VI of Scots. Jack comes from the Latin for James, Jacobus.

James became King of Scots at one year old when his mother Mary Queen of Scots was deposed by rebel Scottish Lords. James patiently waited another thirty-five years until his aunt, Elizabeth I of England died and he succeeded to the throne of England.

James wanted to unite his two kingdoms but the Parliaments of the two sovereign nations opposed it vigorously. James persistently asked his Parliaments to bring about a plan for union but they continually came up with objections. Meanwhile, James did what he could to effect a unification. Firstly, he declared himself ?King of Great Britain?, a term he created for his new kingdom. James also minted a new coin, which could be used in either England or Scotland. He named it the ?Unite?. It was worth five shillings in Sterling and three pounds in Scots. (The Scottish currency had been greatly devalued during James reign in Scotland).

Most importantly, James created the new flag overlaying the English cross of St George on the Scottish cross of St Andrew to form a new National Flag. He rejected other designs suggested by his advisors on the grounds that they were not ?united?. The Union Flag was augmented in 1801 when Ireland became part of The United Kingdom."

Looks like it was originally created in 1606 when James was king of both England and Scotland and then with Ireland added in 1801 it became the Union Flag we know today. No mention of Wales, and the flag of St Patrick is no longer relevant with most of Ireland no longer being in the Union.

http://www.wardsbookofdays.com/12april.htm

[El Pibe]

Wales was relegated to a principality by Edward I, just to let the Tafs know their place and stop constatnly trying to rally around Kings (although I imagine the massive castles and murderous oppression were probaby more persuasive in that respect), hence Wales wasn't one of the three Kingdons and not worthy of an emblematic presence.

[maxxi]

If the Welsh were to be given a stake in the country's emblem (assuming they'd want one) the Cornish would probably want one too - we could end up with something a lot more colourful...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0np91mh8XgwV9Dywns4Yel9UmfENo_lBhgYODdDkICFizm3Nx_w

...now what's the flag for Bermondsey...?

[BrandNewGuy]

As a proud son of Mercia, I insist that the flag of the Kingdom of Mercia be included too

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Mercia_flag.png

[maxxi]

The cross is fine but didn't you read the notice pal? "No Birds". (ditto: dragons, griffins, spaniels[bucks], horses' heads and sheep[you know who you are])

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Here's the Bermondsey flag:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/968/017/Millwall_display_image.jpg?1330376021

[BrandNewGuy]

No problem, just remove the bird and you have the cross of St Alban - the original Mercian flag. Or St Ivel Gold on the slant...

[maxxi]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here's the Bermondsey flag:

>

> http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/p

> hotos/001/968/017/Millwall_display_image.jpg?13303

> 76021

I said no sheep...

[Michael Palaeologus]

The Union Jack is only the Union Jack when it is on a ship. Otherwise its a flag.

[maxxi]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Union Jack is only the Union Jack when it is

> on a ship. Otherwise its a flag.

This is a recent idea and a common misconception* - the flag was referred to as the Union Jack in the 17thC wherever it was flown.

*like 'tomorrow is the 17th'...

[Michael Palaeologus]

"The term 'Union Jack' possibly dates from Queen Anne's time (r. 1702-14), but its origin is uncertain.

It may come from the 'jack-et' of the English or Scottish soldiers, or from the name of James I who originated the first union in 1603.

Another alternative is that the name may be derived from a proclamation by Charles II that the Union Flag should be flown only by ships of the Royal Navy as a jack, a small flag at the bowsprit; the term 'jack' once meant small"

From the Official Website of the British Monarchy. So, could be either, nobody knows.