Snowy Weather - Likely problems?

[oisins]

Hullo

I see that we have snow warnings for London for the weekend. I am new to the ED area (and relatively new to London) and wondered if anyone had any idea how badly snow is likely to disrupt local travel. Any advice from those with experience of previous snowy periods in ED would be great. I assume the tubes in central london will be reliable, but how reliable are the local trains to Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye/ED in bad weather?

Also, I have friends due to visit by car for the weekend and they were worried about what the roads in the area are likely to be like - they are driving in from Gatwick Friday night so should be on main roads most of the way in but will be on local roads once they hit ED (we live in the Dog Kennel Hill estate). How good have the council been in the past at keeping roads clear?

Thanks so much to anyone who has any advice on this.

Oisin

[Sue]

If the snow is very bad then probably the main roads will be fine, but obviously the council does not have the resources to keep clear every single side road.

Last time there was heavy snow it was virtually impossible to travel by car via side roads for a day or so.

Transport will depend on the particular situation. I think it's probably impossible to predict. Tubes should be OK though I don't know about those lines which are partially overground.

ETA: Probably best to keep an eye on the Met Office weather forecasts for London, which may change as it gets closer to the weekend.

ETA: There was one infamous occasion when London buses were brought to a complete standstill by snow, but the tubes were unaffected - assuming you could get to a tube station!

[oisins]

Thanks Sue. I guess it's wait and see!

When you say main roads should be fine, do you think it will be possible to get into ED? Probably coming down from Tulse Hill via Norwood Road - Half Moon Lane. I guess these are main roads so probably the council would be looking to keep them clear. We're right beside ED station so once they can get that far they should be fine.

[Twirly]

Agree with Sue about the main roads, but the side roads tend to have impacted snow and be like ice rinks, so they may be able to get to ED, but whether they will be able to turn into a side road and actually park is another matter altogether!

As for public transport, generally the trains are best avoided, but usually the buses run. It was about 4 years ago I think that even the buses packed up, as the roads weren't safe (no one had bothered to salt of grit - they tend to be better now), and either 2 or 3 years ago when we had lots of snow and I was working in Blackfriars, I was able to get in every day on the 63 when a lot of my colleagues weren't able to at all.

Even this morning when it was just very cold, the trains were up the spout.

However, it all really depends on the type of snow we get, how quickly it settles and where, and particularly how wet it is. Even when it snows makes a difference - during the day, and traffic will keep the roads clear, overnight and it doesn't.

[Jeremy]

Last winter when we had a little bit of snow, the trains were fine.

As I recall, the previous winter, when the snow was a little heavier, there were no trains for around three days. Main roads (bus routes) were gritted fairly quickly, but residential roads were not treated.

[oisins]

Thanks for your advice folks. I'll keep my fingers crossed so...

[lane lover]

Its only heavy snow that effects the roads. Early and late 2010 were examples. The 40/176/185 buses have trouble getting up/down DKH when there is heavy snow / ice, but are diverted through Peckham if this is the case.

Based on a few inches, you wont see any material issues on the roads. However, trains tend to fail at the first dusting of snow.

It hasnt snowed yet, so I wouldnt worry too much until it happens.

[the-e-dealer]

Show them snow and the trains shut down. There were cancellations last year and this year they were delayed.

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Last winter when we had a little bit of snow, the

> trains were fine.

>

> As I recall, the previous winter, when the snow

> was a little heavier, there were no trains for

> around three days. Main roads (bus routes) were

> gritted fairly quickly, but residential roads were

> not treated.

[Sue]

As Twirly says, side roads round here (and of course pavements) can be like ice rinks in certain conditions.

I once set off in the car to try and get food supplies to a friend with flu, and gave up after a very short time as the car was virtually uncontrollable. All very well steering into a skid blah blah, but this was ridiculous.

Had to walk - luckily it was just about within walking distance.

If you're on Dog Kennel Hill Estate your friends might be OK as it's only just off Dog Kennel Hill which I'm sure will be gritted. You could always grit the smaller roads to your parking place yourself!!!

ETA: Or put salt down.

[DulwichFox]

Problem is, it is always the 'Wrong Type of Snow' a term used my Transport governing bodies

and Local Authorities.

'Wrong Type of Snow' means you cannot grit before it comes down and it is too late to grit

after it has come down.

'Wrong Type of Snow' only requires a 'Single Flake' for all Train Services to come to a grinding halt.

Fox

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'Wrong Type of Snow' only requires a 'Single

> Flake' for all Train Services to come to a

> grinding halt.

>

xxxxxxx

Optimistic as always, Fox :))

[Earl Aelfheah]

Southern Trains are planning on running a 'snow timetable' starting tomorrow. It's available on their website here (Timetable 32): http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-my-journey/temporary-timetable-b

[EJTH]

If you or your friends are on Twitter I thoroughly recommend you follow @BBCTravelAlert, @nationalrailenq and @TFLTravelAlerts All tweet in real time and were invaluable in yesterday's chopper crash traffic chaos.

[Sue]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Southern Trains are planning on running a 'snow

> timetable' starting tomorrow.

xxxxxx

Let's hope it's not a "no" timetable :))

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > 'Wrong Type of Snow' only requires a 'Single

> > Flake' for all Train Services to come to a

> > grinding halt.

> >

> xxxxxxx

>

> Optimistic as always, Fox :))

Trust Me...

'Wrong Type of Snow' IS forecast for Friday. It is the 'Powder Snow' that supposidly gets into

the 'Points' of Railwail Tracks that compacts and freezes. Dispite Points being heated.

Fox.

Foxy

[Lowlander]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Southern Trains are planning on running a 'snow

> timetable' starting tomorrow. It's available on

> their website here (Timetable 32):

> http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-m

> y-journey/temporary-timetable-b

so trains every half hour from ED to London Bridge during the peak! 07.09, 07.40 and 08.10

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yes, 2 trains an hour.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > DulwichFox Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > 'Wrong Type of Snow' only requires a 'Single

> > > Flake' for all Train Services to come to a

> > > grinding halt.

> > >

> > xxxxxxx

> >

> > Optimistic as always, Fox :))

>

> Trust Me...

>

> 'Wrong Type of Snow' IS forecast for Friday.

> Fox.

xxxxxxxx

Foxy, it was your mention of the "single flake" I was referring to when I commented on your optimism, not the type of snow :))

[Chillaxed]

Does anyone know if the revised timetable is a definite or will they revert to a normal timetable if the forecast snow does not eventuate? Thanks.

[Lowlander]

Snows not forecast until 0900 tomorrow yet this timetable starts at 0500 or so.

BBC reporting that SouthWest trains have issued a similar timetable and cancelled many services

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21061840

[the-e-dealer]

Southeastern have ALREADY sent out an email saying their services will be disrupted tomorrow morning rush hour. Pathetic.

[Lowlander]

Better they run a more reliable, yet reduced, service rather than a complete and utter shambles of one.

But yes, having seen proper winters in the 80s and 90s, it all seems to fall apart these days...

[the-e-dealer]

They run a shambles most of the time anyway.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Chillaxed Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone know if the revised timetable is a

> definite or will they revert to a normal timetable

> if the forecast snow does not eventuate? Thanks.

The website implies that they are running to the revised timetable regardless, but I could be wrong.

[Sue]

It's probably better that they issue a revised timetable to be adhered to come what may rather than people being unsure which timetable is being used, I reckon.