David Cameron tells porkies about Britain?s national debt

[StraferJack]

More than any other nearby country? More than Irish?

[LondonMix]

Yes, much more. Derivatives desks are dominated by the French. There are many more French, especially in the heavily mathematical areas of finance, than any other single European country in my experience too.

[????]

The demographic make up is entirely different- ditto our emigration to Spain - Retired rich brits (or those on loverly Pensions, cough) and even some Brits commuting from the France to work back in the UK is not a brain drain....(anyway, Hollande will put a stop to this with his new second home tax) but the french coming here are far younger than brits going there, are coming to work and entrepreneur... away from stifling, bureacratic, 35 hour max a week France....I've got a whole bunch of French Colleagues over here too who say that at the moment France is stifling and sucked dry by spoilt, indulged baby boomers who have all the elite psoitions, huge pensions, are effectively unsackable, if we are all going to get anectdotal on each others ars*s.

[????]

..the celebrity issue is such a stooopid distraction

Brain drain ? happened in the past, to the detriment of the UK (and not just celebs), many top notch academics/doctors/ IT geeks/designer, yes and some actors and pop stars, fled to the US in the 60s and 70s away from our punitive taxes. That?s a reality, however much you think ?Well I wouldn?t do that?, of course many stayed too but this was a drain on our human capital.The loss of just some.

Inward investement - Korean/Japanese/US companies looking to invest in Europe including bringing over their own senior management will have a look at tax levels for their senior execs who are going over to manage the businesses if they are too high they?ll go elsewhere, this is a major factor. Senior Korean mangers don?t give a sh1te about our Budget Defeceit or NHS they just say I?ll pay 70% tax there or 45% there?no brainer. This has a significant impact on inward investment decisions. Ditto corporation tax.

Yukky marketing speak, but ?branding? your country with an image of one that as one that taxes high and doesn?t reward entrepreneurship ditto. Foreign investors won?t even put you on the potential list. France?s image overseas is increasingly as an anti-business, statists, unflexible economy.

Finally, as Huge says, higher tax rates tend to lead to a reduction in overall tax take?as they reduce overseas investment, remove incentives to work harder or longer, drive a certain number of those whose desire is to create wealth (greedy ?orrible people as they are no doubt) away. This is of course a view that is contended by many on the left so there?s debate on this but I personally belive it.

I know many left wingers generally think higher tax rates are fairer and juster and all those touchy feely soft values?but it don?t work beyond a certain point. 1000s of people, including many who create wealth, don?t share you ?altruistic? viewpoint on this?.my argument re taxes etc is not idealistic or even altruistic but I believe it is utilitarian, it?s better for us all, rich and poor.

[DaveR]

In my experience there are (very broadly) two main types of French expats in London. The first are those who came because a freer labour market and more dynamic economy (in some sectors at least) make the prospects here much better than in France. The second are those who came because they work for very successful French businesses that have established themselves in the UK, ironically often out-competing domestic UK firms in the relevant market. Any wider economic lessons to be drawn from an Anglo-French comparison ought to look at both sides of that coin.

On the original point re national debt, the fact that the OECD observed that WORLD recovery is slowing suggests that nobody should rush to judgment on the validity of the current policy of aggressively pursuing deficit reduction based on current UK no-growth figures. The essentials of that debate haven't changed, and the current evidence is hardly conclusive. In any event, the idea that growth would be stimulated by a land tax is laughable.

[Huguenot]

I agree with most of the points being made from DaveR and Quids, however, I conversely believe that land tax should be implemented.

Land tax is essentially a downward pressure on economic rent. Economic rent is exploitation of resource control.

david_carnell is right to recognize this as a damaging influence on labour commitment and consequently economies, and a misappropriation of productivity.

Real estate property rights were never intended as a 'property flip' monkey's paradise, but as an opportunity for agricultural economies to benefit from best practice.

We need to find a way in which real estate contributes directly to economic uplift, instead of 'I'm waiting until I can flip it for more'.

[Huguenot]

Having said that, everything Quids says means we're better off in Europe than outside ;)

[LadyDeliah]

Just thought I'd share a link from December to one of my favourite blogs that gives another perspective:

http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/2012/12/liebrary-is-uk-national-debt-at.html?m=1

They are pretty good at making dry financial numbers entertaining.

[????]

Left wing blog in not understanding difference between national debt and budget defeceit shocker, no wonder so many left wing govts the world over get their countries so indebted....

[uncleglen]

Everybody's wages increased by 50% from 2004 to 2010. Except those on the 'red' line

[Ridgley]

It really funny Cameron has been telling pork pies since he has been in office. As follows

? Promised a referendum ? not

? The NHS will be safe in our hands _ yeh right

? Fewer foreign criminals being deported which he made a pledge two years ago

And the porkies goes on.

[Loz]

Ridgley Wrote:

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> It really funny Cameron has been telling pork pies

> since he has been in office. As follows

>

> ? Promised a referendum ? not

On what?

> ? The NHS will be safe in our hands _ yeh right

That's a matter of opinion.

> ? Fewer foreign criminals being deported which he made a pledge two years ago

Careful what you wish for. To do that he will need to repeal the link with the European Court of Human Rights. And that would NOT be a good thing.

[Ridgley]

So LOz are you quite happy for migrants who come into this country from the EU or not to commit a serious crime and don?t get deported because they have a connection with their cat or a family life.

Don?t you think they should of thought of this before committing the crime in the first place? My understanding of human rights was set up after the WW2 to stop countries persecuting ethnic minorities and the most vulnerable people in society not protect criminals who commit a serious crime abuse the system.

That is why the world see Britain as a joke.

[StraferJack]

The world doesn't see Britain a a joke. That's a cliche used by some people to bolster their own prejudices

And your lazy pointing at a 2 year old case is also flawed

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15171980

[Ridgley]

Don?t be stupid it is not prejudice to say if you come into the country and commit a serious crime that you should be deported. Very easy to play the prejudice card to make your argument tell that to the parents of the 12 year old daughter who was killed in that high profile case.

[StraferJack]

You brought up the cat as the reason he wasn't deported. I merely showed you that wasn't the case

I used the term prejudice not about that case but about people who lazily claim Britain is a laughing stock around the world

[StraferJack]

I didn't know about a 12 year old girls death tho. Have you got a link?

[Ridgley]

Please see link

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9645817.Dad_of_Blackburn_girl_killed_by_illegal_immigrant_backs_criticism_of_UK_Border_Agency/

[StraferJack]

so that is a completely different case and nothing to do with a cat?

any parent losing a child in a traffic accident is tragic - not sure where he is from originally or sending him "back" helps

What do we do with all of the other car-related fatalities which happend almost daily?

[Ridgley]

My point is he was illegal immigrant and he was allowed to stay. The cat issue was about something totally different.

[StraferJack]

yup and all teh reasons why that are the case were explained in the ruling

Now you may not like or agree with them, but I'm not sure it's Cameron's fault (which is where you started on this thread I think)

[Ridgley]

Like you say we can agree to disagree;)

[Loz]

Ridgley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So LOz are you quite happy for migrants who come

> into this country from the EU or not to commit a

> serious crime and don?t get deported because they

> have a connection with their cat or a family life.

I think it's a small price to pay for having an extraordinarily valuable safeguard as the ECHR. Destroying that in order to deport a few immigrants is very short sighted.

[Ridgley]

Agree to Disagree LOz