Some sneaky camera's to separate you from your money

[Chick]

Southwark putting in camera's looking at box junctions, double yellow lines and bus lanes.

[Chick]

And Forrest Hill Road by Kings on the Rye

[Sephiroth]

sorry - what's the problem here?

You want to enter box junctions, park on double yellow lines?

[Chick]

Not in particular, I just don't think it's right that the council can fine you for minor transgression's. I also saw one in Greenwich where a box junction appeared which wasn?t necessary and a camera pointing straight at it. That one was obviously entrapment.

[Sephiroth]

who defines minor? is it you?

or is it people who have to make a decision on how to keep traffic in a global city moving? Where, without fines (or other punishment, you can offer your own?) people left to their own devices will just clog up every road?

If a box junction suddenly appears - how do you decide it isn't necessary? How is it entrapment? You drive along the road, any road and if you see a box junction you don't enter it unless etc etc - how is that in any way entrapment?

[Chick]

This is about raising revenue not public safety.

[Sephiroth]

No infraction no revenue

This isn?t hard

[Sephiroth]

If something would fail your driving test, don?t bitch about getting fined for same thing

[Chick]

As I said it's not about safety just revenue.

[Sephiroth]

There is no revenue! If you don?t break the rules you learned.

I have never paid a penny. How much have you paid?

If it?s nothing them there is no revenue

If it?s lots then you are just a bad driver

When my way is blocked by someone in a junction or parked on double yellows I want them more than fined

[Sephiroth]

People who leave litter and drive badly

Fine them both to hell. Jail Em

Just make them stop

[Whoeveritis]

you?re nasty

[Alan Medic]

He isn't.

[Whoeveritis]

Why would anyone want someone jailed for accidentally entering a box junction , you?d have to be somewhere on the freak spectrum, just saying

[Sephiroth]

A bit literal whoeveritis

I don?t really want them jailed or fined. But whatever ?punishment? is meted out its self inflicted.

Be respectful of other?s space and time, abide by the rules you signed up to when you passed your test and everyone?s a winner. No entrapment. No fines. No jail. No silly threads

[malumbu]

a. The cameras there are to enforce the law, some drivers don't obey them

b. Stephiroth is just emphasising the point, I expect. Although for some drivers I'd crush their cars. Maybe the only whay they will learn

c. Do we really need another thread about 'Southwark hating motorists' and

d. If I feel like that why am I even contributing....

[DuncanW]

Are you sure these are enforcement cameras anyway? I thought you had to have signage warning of enforcement cameras, plus they had to be highly visible as such, like the boxy yellow cameras for speeding fines. Is that not the case anymore?

[malumbu]

I see these regularly on my journeys https://roadsignsdirect.co.uk/tsrgd/reminder-drivers-traffic-enforcement-cameras-are-use-879 but understand that by law they don't need to go up.

Let's face it, we should all know the highway code, speed limits and the like, so not really sure why people are complaining. If some entitled rrrs blocks a box junction or is across the lights, I expect most of us wont have a lot of sympathy if the driver gets caught. My younger me would rant about this sort of thing, and I got done in a 30mph area on a speed trap years ago. Me to copper - it's a duel carriageway, away from houses, in must be 40mph. Copper - no sign, 30mph.

But as said I've grown up since then.

There's an adult conversation about enforcement, warnings vs fines, and the size of fines. Many law abiding motorists think it is unfair that they make a slight mistake, yet know of others who couldn't give a fig, and get away with it. The authorities do not want to demonise decent people. But straying into box junctions? That's just poor driving.

[alex_b]

My impression is that when people complain about traffic enforcement being ?just about revenue? what they really mean is that road rules shouldn?t be enforced at all. For instance if the law were changed to have non fine based enforcement say points for every infraction (and driving bans for repeated infractions) I?m sure the refrain would be ?points and bans are too punitive for blocking junctions or using bus lanes?. Perhaps it?s that enforcement is so rare in the UK that the few times people are fined it feels very arbitrary and unfair.

It?s the same with the LTN enforcement the same people are simultaneously claiming:

1. That the hard closures at Calton/Court Lane etc are too broad, stops emergency vehicles and should be a permeable, timed closure enforced by cameras

2. That the permeable, timed closures enforced by cameras elsewhere in Dulwich are simply a moneymaking scam by Southwark and that there should be hard closures to stop people accidentally driving through them

I have to agree with Sephiroth if it?s something that would cause you to fail your driving test (theory or practical) you can?t complain if you get fined or points on your licence.

[TheCat]

If faced with a fine, you can always just trot out the excuse that plenty of twa..sorry, 'motorists' believe is an excuse to break every road or parking rule under the sun...."Im just dropping my kids off".....

....apparently it works in all situations...double yellow? No problem.....block a whole lane of traffic while you 'dash-in'?, no problem...Park over a local resident's drive? No problem.... Stop both lanes of traffic while you pull across oncoming traffic to stop on the wrong side of the road? No problem....etc etc

Ok (slightly niche) rant over:)

I say this as a parent of school aged children as well...but the entitlement of some motoring parents at dropoff and pickup is quite breathtaking sometimes.

[Sephiroth]

I see it all over lockdown as well as places open up for takeaways

There I go every weekend, park at the free (after 5pm anyway) , near empty car park about 50 yards away from the pub/restaurant. Then I walk past several cars all parked up on double-yellow lines, blocking traffic on a narrow street

lazy, entitled (and in my experience, aggressive) tossers

is this related to financial penalties? It';s all breaking the Highway Code and if they were fined for this behaviour they wouldn't hold their hands up and say "it's a fair cop guv" - they would just moan about "revenue raising"

[malumbu]

I did some safer parking outside school a few years ago, it was an organised parents' campaign to dissuade inappropriate parking, for about a week. We got a bit of grief early on and then those particular parents stopped parking irresponsibly. It was a gentle reminder and a leaflet rather than anything more confrontational. After day two or three, some would come up to their usual irresponsible parking space, and then look embarrassed and drive away.

It was a sizeable minority if that makes sense. Of course once our kids had moved on the same problem happened all over again.

[OutOfFocus]

So if i shoplift and get fined, that is raising revenue for the government rather than punishment.

[Chick]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> sorry - what's the problem here?

>

> You want to enter box junctions, park on double

> yellow lines?

-------------------------------------------------------

> People who leave litter and drive badly

>

> Fine them both to hell. Jail Em

>

> Just make them stop

I didn?t advocate parking on double yellow lines. I didn?t advocate entering a box junction when your exit is blocked and I certainly don?t drop litter and am a careful and courteous driver. I think copping a ?65.00 fine for straying into the bus lane on the way to Sainsbury on DKH is unreasonable, a written warning for a first offence would be reasonable. You are unnecessarily aggressive. I wonder if you be so aggressive face to face? You are a keyboard bully.

[Sephiroth]

Chick. You?ve met me several times. If it was about this subject it?s possible i would be

Written warnings etc sound reasonable but

A) sheer volume of people doing this means it would be massively costly

B) most likely ineffective

I can agree that accidentally straying into a bus lane can seem overly harsh - but that?s at an individual level. At a city wide level it?s happening all the time

And lastly, you didn?t start a thread asking if 65 Quid was a bit harsh for accidentally slipping into a bus lane. You said council are putting up cameras as nothing more than a cash grab. You say you aren?t advocating breaking the rules but it?s happening by the minute. That?s the real issue

If it was ONLy An accidental and occasional driver doing a whoopsie there wouldn?t be a problem and there wouldn?t need to be such strict penalties. But we are where we are