Crystal Palace Road spine

[ed26]

The standard of cycling on Crystal Palace Road this week has shocked me. I see that the "spine" words have been put on the road, so has the spine route only just been launched? Maybe the wording / cycle signs are giving cyclists a false sense of security that it's a cycle path rather than a busy residential road? Or maybe I've just witnessed more than my fair share of idiots this week.

In my walks up and down the street this week I've seen many, many cyclists with no lights on, including one who zipped through a narrow gap when a car was reversing into a space. Another yelled rudely at a lady who was crossing the road with her young daughter (and to be fair, I think they'd started crossing before the cyclist came around the corner). They fly across East Dulwich Road when the lights are red, both when the pedestrian crossings are on green man, or when East Dulwich Road has priority. And they seem to ignore the no-right-turn into East Dulwich Road, which is a hazard for oncoming traffic that wouldn't expect anyone to be turning right there. (OK, it's a pointless no-right-turn, but it's been there for years and everyone is used to it).

I guess most of these people are just passing through and would previously have been on Lordship Lane or Peckham Rye. It won't be long before someone complains that it isn't safe and results in more restrictions for local road users.

[Rockets]

Don't...I just got off the train at North Dulwich and there was one lady in our carriage who was not wearing a mask - annoying enough I am sure you'll agree. She then proceeded to unchain her bike from outside the station and then cycled off with no helmet and no lights on Red Post Hill to the traffic lights and the on to Dulwich Village. A car trying to turn left at the lights nearly took her out as they had no way to see her as she had no lights. Some cyclists are an accident waiting to happen.

[Leara4077]

I'm sorry you had that experience. As someone who is a cyclist and cycles with family locally, I always dislike poorly behaved cyclists. I am similarly dismayed by the aggression of many car users towards cyclists following lockdown, its certainly gotten worse. I hope you keep an eye out for the more respectful bikers too! Happy walking 😊🚲🍃

[Rockets]

Unfortunately there are bad eggs on both sides who give all of the good ones a bad name!

[DuncanW]

You're absolutely right Rockets, there are bad eggs who drive cars and ride bikes, I've seen some silly pedestrians too.

Some people only see the bad cyclists though, and I can't for the life of me understand why that is...

By the way, if you are worried about hitting a cyclist as they are not lit up, wait until you hear about these 1.5 tn lumps of metal people have started leaving on the side of the road everywhere :)

[CPR Dave]

Cyclists have never bothered to stop at the red lights at East Dulwich Road. I've seen several rows there between cyclists going through red and pedestrians trying to cross the road with young children on a green man.

[Nigello]

People only see the bad cyclists because it is bad behaviour that could have bad results for cyclist and anyone unlucky enough to come into contact with them. Standard, acceptable behaviour is the base so nobody need comment on it.

I cannot understand cyclists who don't have light on their bikes, front and back, nor a bell. (Likewise, so many pedestrians, sometimes walking kids and dogs, have no reflective strip or badge etc. - stoopid.)

The upwardly mobile ones who go through red lights, especially en masse, but even when with kids as passengers is not a good look. And those who still insist on cycling on the pavement especially when new lanes, signs, crossings etc. have been put in for them is a particular bugbear.

Rules of the road are for everyone - including pedestrians - so yes, I do get miffed when others don't value their own lives as well as mine and others.

[ed26]

"Some people only see the bad cyclists though" - of course - you don't go to the cinema and remember the dozens of people sitting quietly and enjoying the film; you remember the two idiots who chatted and texted all the way through the film. The problem is that the number of cyclists hammering down Crystal Palace Road and weaving in and out of traffic and pedestrians has definitely increased lately. It's not all cyclists, but it's certainly more than it was and I'm not sure if it's the general return to work, or the designation of CPR as a cycle route that has done it.

And I agree that there's bad motorists around too - only yesterday I was just starting to overtake a stopped bus on East Dulwich Grove when the car behind me decided he/she could get by more quickly and overtook me while I was pulling out to overtake, nearly taking my front wing out. Shortly after that, a moped rider dashed across the entrance to Copleston Road while I was turning into it, across the pavement / pedestrian area and then the wrong way down the Oglander Road one way system.

And while we're on it (!) I don't understand why so many motorists won't pull into a space between cars on their side of the road when I've stopped there so that we can pass each other. Grrr.

So yeah, not just cyclists, but my point was about cycling on Crystal Palace Road getting worse, and I think it's a fair one.

[DuncanW]

Sorry, I should have been clearer - I wasn't asking why is it some people see the bad cyclists, but not all the good ones?

Your cinema analagy works well to rebutt that, but it wasn't my point.

Moreso, why is it that some people see and complain about bad cyclists all the time, but much less so about bad motorists. Noted that you then go on to detail some poor car driving that you've seen. But it seems that there is a cohort that notice and complain about bad cycling much more readily - and this is in inverse proportion to the harm caused.

[CPR Dave]

Because most of us walk around the local area, not drive around it I suppose. and as a walker, cyclists are most often the biggest menace round here.

[ed26]

CPR Dave sums it up well. Although I agree with DuncanW that a bad driver could be a greater harm to a pedestrian, bad cyclists (not all cyclists) are a bigger menace on a day to day basis. Yes, I've seen cars driving through red lights on pedestrian crossings, but not dozens of cyclists, every day, every time I cross the road (which is how it feels sometimes).

There's also the case that motorists, good and bad, are always seen as the bad guys and, in the eyes of the various councils, cyclists are often put on a pedestal (granted, for some good environmental and traffic reasons). London has done a lot to make cycling safer over the past few years, often to the detriment to road and pavement space. So I think that pedestrians and motorists feel particularly aggrieved when bad cyclists flout the rules that are supposed to keep everyone safe, including cyclists.

A good example of this is the cycle superhighway up through the Blackfriars area. Buses now stop on the road side of the cycle path, so passengers have to cross the cycle path (which is VERY fast moving and you get shouted at) or walk up to the pedestrian crossings, just to get to the pavement. The pedestrian crossing has little traffic lights with bikes on, low down, so there's no excuse for not seeing them. Yet a large number of cyclists still charge through when pedestrians are crossing. Generally speaking, motorists don't shout at pedestrians to get out of the way when they are crossing the road and drive at them at full speed, but a lot of cyclists do.

[SE22_2020er]

@CPR Dave - are you taking the p**s or actually being serious?! "Cyclists are most often the biggest menace". I can assure the reason I don't let my young children play in front of our house is the likely threat of being killed by a driver... ...not a cyclist.

So, I guess, if you ignore:

1. The pollution that cars cause (I think there is another thread about 250 pages long about this - so best not go into detail here),

2. The fact that they kill c2000 people in the UK per year

3. The fact that they injure c150,000 people in the UK per year

4. The fact that every single road is given over them to park along on both sides - when did you last see a road without cars?

5. The traffic queues that they cause.

Apart from that I guess bikes are the biggest menace!!! Bangs head repeatedly on desk :-)

[Monkey]

Walking, driving and cycling around, I?m constantly wondering how people passed their driving test (if indeed they have). This includes the imbecile who couldn?t do a three-point-turn on Townley Road last week and nearly hit a lady walking on the pavement. Utterly fed up to see cyclists blamed for everything all the time when the standard of driving around here is piss poor.

[Spartacus]

Let's be honest

It's not bad cyclists, it's not bad motorists, it's not bad pedestrians

It's simply because everyone feels time pressured and short cuts / risks are taken which then highlights an issue (be it bad overtaking, jumping a red light... )

There's no easy fix but in the 60s and 70s there where public information films about being respectful to other road users (these also included the green cross man / tufty) and maybe we all need a reminder that we all share the road and none of us own it ...

Now where's Steven Spielberg when you need him)

[Nigello]

The latest TfL public info film got cancelled lest it upset certain people. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/transport-for-london-pause-new-see-their-side-after-backlash-against-advert

Poor feelings MIGHT have been hurt so it was taken off air. All that money wasted...

[SE22_2020er]

@Spartacus - yes, but the effect of the bad ones is shockingly disproportionate. Just because everyone loves a good hyperbolic statistic:

Globally:

1. There are 1.35 million road deaths every year

2. Road deaths are the eighth highest cause of death for people of all ages

3. Road deaths are the number one killer of those between the ages of 5-29.

4. Pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists make up more than half of all road deaths (these road users are collectively known as vulnerable road users).

(https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/global-road-safety)

[Rockets]

Absolutely agree that the effect of bad drivers has much worse consequences than bad cyclists and this story (that someone posted elsewhere) highlights the absolute worst of some drivers. But it also demonstrates there are bad eggs on both sides and you can see that there were moments that both could have behaved better and de-escalated the situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/motorist-jailed-for-running-over-cyclist-who-spat-on-his-car?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2kdScweEgMq3rQIIPlOYqvs9ImMM3NiU_rmhRln4WEcSA7T4LQ6hqg27k#Echobox=1639485222

Cyclist hits car and cycles off

Car driver goes to remonstrate with cyclist about the damage caused to his car

Cyclist spits on man's car

Car driver loses it and uses his car as a weapon and, deservedly, goes to prison.

[Monkey]

Frankly posts about bad cyclists don?t help. All they do is feed the anger of people with very little brains who think that the road belongs to them because they?re in a big metal box. Roads belong to everybody, everybody should be able to use them safely. True that cyclists should have lights. But so do cars. And they often don?t or think they need full beams and fog lights. 🙄 We can go on like that for ever. Frankly we all need to stop being dicks.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

If you out enough effort into it, you could spend your whole life moaning about bad cyclists, bad drivers, bad joggers, bad pushchair pushers, bad pedestrians...and some people do.

[CPR Dave]

Monkey your brain is too small to notice that I was talking about how cyclists round here behave towards pedestrians

[Monkey]

I wasn?t talking about your post, CPR Dave, which I hadn?t even read. Jumping the red at ED road is mind blowingly stupid. But for each cyclist doing this, there will be a pedestrian jumping in front of a bicycle or a car. Why this obsession with cyclists when cars and pedestrians are no better?

[Shaggy]

That's just rubbish. You *might* have seen one or two people doing that (although I doubt it).

CPR Dave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cyclists have never bothered to stop at the red

> lights at East Dulwich Road. I've seen several

> rows there between cyclists going through red and

> pedestrians trying to cross the road with young

> children on a green man.

[CPR Dave]

I see it every single day. Some go straight through across the road, some try to pretend they are pedestrians and cross in the direction of the green men, and there is one particular lady who cycles up the dropped curbs to go round the corner on one red light and then continue her journey off the the next dropped curb onto the road.

Every single day.

[KidKruger]

Yeah I had a cyclist yesterday go through red light on EDR while the ?pedestrians cross? walking man light was on for me and my dog.

He shouted me to get out of his way, but the other cyclists (I think, two of them) going through red at the same time didn?t shout at me.

It?s not all the time but it?s not rare either.

[Lebanums]

I am both a cyclist & driver & think like the other when I am out.

Last night, I was walking down upland, crossed the road & glanced behind me to make sure there were no cars. Out of nowhere (I'm not sure I would call him a cyclist, more of a guy skulking around on a bike) passed me with a glare. I said to him, "how was I supposed to see you? You are wearing black and have no lights?" He turned back & I was hit with a torrent of abuse. He told me he would box my face in. I answered back with a sharp comment not to be intimidated by him. When I reached North Cross Road, he was then on the pavement coming my way, so I crossed the road to avoid him.