can your family get by without a car?

[canela]

We've just completed 6 months of our experiment of not having a car - and just wondered if other families have also given up car ownership and what has worked for them? To be honest, the winter has been fairly straightforward as we didn't really venture much further than London and outskirts - but now summer is (hopefully!) on its way I want to start planning some weekends away. Has anyone got any really good tips for how to get good deals on weekend car rentals, or tips on travelling long distance on trains with little ones. I sat down last night and tried to plan our journey to see my friend down in Devon for her 40th and almost cried with frustration! should i just bottle it and get a car? I'd like to at least see the year through!

i would say that I am usually a pretty good mum-traveller, having flown to australia on my own twice with kids. but it was a long trip and took loads of planning - don't want to have to do that just for a weekend away!

btw main reason for ditching the old banger that we had was economic - on the assumption that we really only need one in the summer for breaks, camping trips etc... am i being unrealistic?

[Cora]

We've got three kids, eldest 8 and youngest 3, and have never had a car. As you say, in London it is mainly fine, it is the trips away that get complicated. We are on on my mum and dad's insurance who are in Cambridge so sometimes will train it there and then borrow the car for a couple nights but wish zip car worked better for these type of weekend trips....looking forward to seeing how others deal with the trips thing....train journeys have definitely improved with the iPod and iPad!!

[Sol]

Congratulations. I don't even know how we lived without a car when our first child was born; I found going on public transport with young children a nightmare; outings, shopping etc is very difficult with children and without a car. But that may be just me who likes an easy/less complicated life and hate people looking at me on the train when the children are screaming or not behaving well. It may be easier with over 3 but not with toddlers/babies

Maybe joining a car club will be a good option

[Jessie]

I've never had a car, and as a result find travelling on public transport with my 8 year old v easy as he's so used to it (and boy, have we travelled)

[Chillaxed]

No car for us (with a 2 year old). We walk to anywhere in Dulwich, Peckham, Herne Hill, use the bus or train for trips to the Southbank, West End, etc, hire a Zipcar for big shopping trips or day trips (and always pull into Sainsbury's on the way home to stock up on bulky items), and hire a car from a 'proper' car hire place for longer, UK holidays. Taxi's for everything else.

Works great and saves us money and hassle, but the acid test will be when (and where) our young one begins school, and/or when we have another.

Good luck!

[pripolla]

No car here too, with a (now) nearly 6 year old, and always used trains/buses/coaches for trips and days out (I don't drive). We go to North Devon quite often by train, she loves it, you can book seats in Coach D which has Volo TV (just like an airline), it's great.

[Otta]

We don't drive (I can't because of eye sight, and Mrs Otta has never learnt.

Generaly not a big deal, and hasn't stopped us doing anything. But some things would definitely be easier, and my wife is planning to learn so that we could hire a car for trips as and when. Definitely won't be buying a car, as I think it's just too big a cost to run it.

[etta166]

I didn't have a car until I had 2 children (baby and a 2 year old). I used Zipcar/Streetcar before that for the odd occasion when we needed or wanted to use a car. The only problem with that strategy is that I couldn't get to our nearest car with 2 children and 2 car seats, so it wasn't really possible any more.

Now that I do have a car, I find that I don't use it that much and we probably could get by without it when in London, and not miss it much at all. I would miss it for trips to see friends and family at the weekend, though. If I didn't have 3 children or if our family lived closer by, then I don't think I'd own a car. And once I don't need more than one bulky/heavy car seat I'm hoping to go back to Zipcar again.

[pilsbury]

Interesting thread as I've never owned a car in my life, but will inheriting one when my generous in laws move to france this summer - and ever since they've told us we'll be getting it, I've been obsessively fantasising about how much easier life will be with a car! I think its a) weather related (really running out of local indoor activities to do with a toddler with the constant rain) and b) pregnancy related (with a second on the way in early summer i'm finding the schlepp to nursery pick-up/sainos etc harder and harder as my legs just don't work as fast as I want them too!)

much like chillaxed we use zipcar for most day or part-day rentals (sainos or ikea trip or day trips to friends in other parts of London) + hertz/avis for rentals of 1 day or more. I've used zipcar for ages now and think we're really blessed to have so many cars in ED/Peckham and I still love that service. for avis/hertz I recommend joining their loyalty schemes as its usually free to do so and then you *might* get an upgrade every now and then, plus in some rental office (e.g. hertz in Victoria) you can skip the normal queue and go to the gold members' priority queue.

[Pickle]

I've owned cars since I was 17 (grew up in NZ, not a huge amount of public transport, pretty much everyone drives). When I moved to London 12 years it took me 6 months of Northern Line commuting hell before I bought a Vespa, and shortly after that, a little run around car.

These days I would struggle without one - 3 kids and their various after school/weekend activities which aren't all local, Mr Pickle uses it to get to squash/hockey, and I have a busy routine of rehearsals, most of which are in Brockley/Lewisham/Bromley and start at 7:30pm - pretty much impossible to get to on public transport within the 20 minutes after the kids are in bed.

I think I'd feel lost without one after over 20 years of owning cars :-)

[alieh]

We've gotten along fine without a car until the last few months when our two are now 4 and 2. With the awful weather we were getting bored of just the local indoor activities and the toddler's nap makes it hard to go further afield on public transport and get back in time.

We did use ZipCar but it isn't great for weekends away and it is also a real pain to lug two huge car seats in and out of the house every time you want to go out.

We bought a small, used car and I have to say we're loving it!

[canela]

i suppose my question is when does it end up being cheaper to actually buy a small, used car than spend quite a hefty amount on weekend rentals? my worry is that our last car - which was my mum's cast off - ended up being just a money drain. i don't want to buy something and then end up having to fix this and that all the time...

[hanstands]

Hello, I like this interesting thread.

We don't own/use a car and have two smallish children. We use a combo of bikes with child seat, a chariot [bike trailer for two], buses, trains, Zipcar, walking, skateboarding, scootering.

Up sides: Way cheaper than owning a car, keeps us all fit, educational for children perhaps.

Downsides: We don't go away at weekends as much as we'd like to [boo hoo], have to beg friends to help us out sometimes.

[pebbles]

I've been reading this thread with interest. We have two children (5 and 3) and I can honestly say I couldn't exist without our car!!! I'm in absolute awe of you all getting around easily without one.

My father in law lives in Northampton and we visit him a lot. My mummy lives in Dulwich but too far for my kids to walk/scoot to and from as often as we see her.

The things I love about having a car is that we can go anywhere and be home in a short amount of time in time for lunch/tea/melt downs/bed time. Personally (and please don't shoot me down) I don't think I would do as much with them as I do if we couldn't be home shortly - does that make sense?

We have friends who live in the country and we regularly visit them. I'm not sure we would visit them as much without one.

I've got a lot of friends in Dulwich, Clapham etc (I was brought up here) so I love the ease of being able to jump in the car in the evenings and go over to one of their houses. I don't think I would do this at night if I had to take public transport - I'm a bit scared of travelling in the dark!

Again please please don't shoot me down but my son goes to a private school which is too far away to walk so we either drive the whole way (if the weather is dreadful) or we drive half way there and then scoot/bike the rest of the way (my normal day). It's far too far for them to walk before and after especially when they're tired so I'm not sure how I would do it without a car.

As with a lot of things in life, you only miss something if you've had it which is why I would miss it.

So as I said, I take my hat off to you all, but personally, I don't think I/we could get by without a car :)

[????]

I could get by without a car, a TV, at a push electricity.....do I want to?

[Otta]

And that is basically the point Quids. Anyone CAN manage without a car. If you suddenly lost your car, you'd just have to. It just means approaching things differently.

I make no judgement either way of people choosing to have a car or not. I do laugh though when people say they simply couldn't get by without a car.

[Saffron]

After a doctor talking on his mobile phone crashed into our car and totalled it, we've found that we simply aren't able to afford another car. We get by because we have no other option. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it isn't. GrrRRRrrr.

Can't live without your car, you say???? Hmm. Careful what you wish for.

[canela]

i have to say i've much preferred being without a car in London. It just feels like one less thing to worry about, no insurance, no repairs, and I'm perfectly happy to be confined to public transport. find driving quite a hassle whereas the bus is an adventure! in a weird way i think being restricted has made our life simpler and therefore less stressful. i end up doing less but i was probably running around like a mad thing before.

but just about come to the conclusion that if we are planning to go camping a couple of weekends over the summer - and then next summer too, we might as well buy a cheap second hand one, than spend ?150 that is just lost money each time we hire a car. i know it will creep up on us and we will end up using it more and more...but that is what we want to guard against. maybe I'll hide the keys for the winter.

[jim_the_chin]

Our car is just about to expire and I'm thinking of zipcar as I do about 3k miles max a year

Do people find you have to book in advance for cars? We're not amazingly organised and make last minute decisions often about days out. Any good or bad experiences out there?

[camberlou]

I've used car clubs for years and find it very useful. I'm not sure about days out, but as an example, I decided on Sunday night to do some shopping for big stuff yesterday and booked a car (5 mins walk from home) for yesterday morning for a few hours. I do tend to be a bit organised ahead of time if I want a car for the whole day, but that's habit.

I also use taxis more than my car owning friends. I often get a taxi from the train station when I go to visit friends who live around the country, where public transport is limited (or non existant). They are horrified, as it's such an anathema to them. But for me, a taxi is another of transport option. Either that, or I take my bike. I've gone away on camping weekends, taking the tent, sleeping bags, cooking kit etc on my bike, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't do that with small kids. Bigger ones, they can carry a pannier and help, but wouldn't want to attempt it with little ones.

Last year the AA estimated it costs ?6-7000 per year to run a car (average use of 10,000miles). That would seem to be a lot of weekends' car hire at ?150 a pop. (I have annual car hire excess cover, for ?40 so I don't have to worry about insurance excess). Cars depreciate so quickly in value. And with a hire car or carclub (Avis owns Zipcar) you always have a new vehicle so don't have to worry about maintainence and things going wrong.

[canela]

I think that AA amount is for pretty regular use though - not for if you just want it outside of London.

In the end, we have decided to go for a cheap used car. Mainly because my mother is going to buy it as it means we will visit her more regularly! I'm very grateful as it means our summer camping trips will be a whole lot easier. Yet I will miss my non-car status I think...just seems like one less thing to think about, plus trains are more fun and better for environment. But at the end of the day all our family live outside of London and off the beaten track, and bus,train,bus meant our visits were limited. Maybe a good thing? Maybe having a car makes us more busy-busy than is good for us. Anyway, we are going to very strictly limit car use to outside London.

I'm very impressed by those families who get along without one, and I can say that our mini-experiment showed me it was definitely possible.

[jim_the_chin]

I think I've calculated about ?3000-3500 for annual car costs, which includes an ?8k car loan, but does not include depreciation. That would add an extra thousand at least.

Car hire for holidays reasons would be about ?1500 I estimate; and local and weekend zipcar trips probably the same again. So, not much difference, but no major outlay.

Zipcar also seem to have some consistently bad net reviews out there, but they've certainly corndered the market in ED for car club cars.

[camberlou]

Zipcar took over Streetcar a year or two ago and I noticed a definite decline in standards. But it seems to have straightened itself out again.

The amount you'd be using a hire car or carclub car Jim, it looks like the cost/convenience balance wouldn't work. Given that your figures assume approx 5 x 10 days hire per year and one day twice a month of car club, it would be pretty inconvenient not having a car of your own too, I reckon.

I pay about ?250 for a week's car hire, including taxi to/from the hire pick up point and annual excess cover. It can be a bit of a faff - either one of goes and gets the car, then we load up. Or we all go together in the cab and move everything from the cab to the hire car. But we only do it a couple of times a year.

I don't think we'd do more if I owned a car, but I might get less frustrated with all those weeknd engineering works on the railway.

[canela]

camberlou, is that ?250 with zip car?

[camberlou]

No, I tend to use Barnes Van Hire in Dalston (which a north london friend put me onto) for a five door Golf, or Enterprise in Lee if we want something bigger.

I think carclubs tend to work out quite expensive for more than 24/36 hours, though I haven't tried it for a while.

Forgot to say earlier, I don't know the details of the AA report, I just remember the number from the media fuss around it at the time.