Britain tops the fuel poverty league table

[DJKillaQueen]

'Five million UK households, or 19.2 per cent of the total, are now in fuel poverty'. And 6% of households can't afford to turn on the heating at all.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/britain-tops-the-fuel-poverty-league-table-8554723.html

[Loz]

I don't disagree that this is a problem, but I do wish people would stop trying to use the word 'poverty' out of context to make a political point. It really annoys me.

[DJKillaQueen]

But it is linked to poverty Loz. People don't turn on the heating because it becomes a choice between eating and warmth. Or do we only define poverty a being neither able to afford food AND heat, rather than one or the other.

[????]

Removing the 'green tax' would help....not seen the Guardian or left campaining about that. Good luck to the Green Party in their stated aim of getting support outside the middle classes.....

[Loz]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> But it is linked to poverty Loz. People don't turn on the heating because it becomes a choice between

> eating and warmth. Or do we only define poverty a being neither able to afford food AND heat, rather

> than one or the other.

No, it's not. It is linked to being poor. Poverty is not that you are spending 10% of your income on heating (the definition used). That's being poor. Poverty is no heating at all... or food... or a house.

There is little to no 'poverty' in the UK. There are a lot of poor people though.

[DJKillaQueen]

Hmmmm......I understand your point but you are talking about absolute poverty. There's also relative poverty. All three definitions are widely used to describe various degrees of what is considered to be poverty. Poverty in it's single definition is 'the state of one who lacks a certain amount of material possessions or money'....so in that context, not having enough money to heat could be called an experience of poverty. And people do die in this country because they can't heat their homes.

[Loz]

I consider 'relative poverty' up there with 'mentally addictive' - i.e. a misuse of a strong word for political reasons. The fact that people now use 'poverty' to mean 'relative poverty' only enforces that.

[DJKillaQueen]

I understand your point but language and definitions change as circumstances change. Personaly I think it's splitting hairs - poor/ poverty.

At the end of the day we have a growing poor who can not meet basic living costs. And we have a government intend with making being poor so unbearable that the millions of unemployed for example go and take the millions of jobs that um....aren't there. Goodness know what the millions of people in full time work and poor are supposed to do (a million of them need Housing Benefit to help pay their rent!).

[Saffron]

The article lists poor insulation as a major issue. Purely out of personal experience here and abroad, I have to agree. When I lived in Switzerland, I noticed that even the dumpiest of buildings was highly insulated. Conversely the opposite often seems to be true here. Only the best properties seem to be properly insulated.

[LondonMix]

Hmmm, does spending 10% of your income on heating make you poor though? I agree, no heating probably makes you relatively poor. However, surely that term doesn't taken into account how much discretionary income you have in the first place.

Either way, insulation is the answer. However retro-fitting insulation into a Victoria property can at times pose its own difficulties with ventilation and damp...

[DJKillaQueen]

But many of the porest live in social housing, where insulation (beyond windows) can not be improved. And in many southwark flats (because the rooms are so small), mould and mildew is a real problem if those windows aren't allowing ventilation and the heating is turned off. I know of many families who just simply can not afford to heat their homes.

10% IS a good figure because if you take home minimum wage, what you are left with after rent and council tax isn't very much (comparable to JSA in fact). An average single person (in a one bedroomed flat) spends ?13 a week on electric. Gas just doesn't become an affordable option. Hot water once a day will cost ?6 across the week. Heating for one hour a day will take it up to ?18. A person with just ?70 a week income after tax and rent absolutely will find themself unable to afford this. But that ?28 before tax and other bills is equivalent to around 10% of their income (on a minimum wage). So for those people it is a good indicator.