Lime bikes (and other hire companies) left in middle of pavement

[Jenijenjen]

How can a bike parked across the pavement block access to other cyclists?

[Guest]

Lots of Lime bikes at the junction with Peckham Rye, were laying on the ground during the week.

[exdulwicher]

Lots of Lime bikes at the junction with Peckham Rye, were laying on the ground during the week.

 

Yeah, I picked up a fallen one along College Road the other day. Not sure if it had been left that way, blown over in the wind, knocked over by a pedestrian / scooter-ist / cyclist clipping it or bumped into by a car pulling a 3-point turn but whatever - it was still functional. I rode it down to the Village and left it by the bike stands there and it all seemed to be working OK. And it was removed from being in the way!

[Bic Basher]

How can a bike parked across the pavement block access to other cyclists?

 

Dulwich Common is a dual pedestrian and cycle lane on both sides of the road.

[Bic Basher]

Lime have suspended their scooter service today due to the weather. Bikes are still available.

[legalalien]

Some form of experimental traffic orders relating to E-bike and E-scooter parking appear to be on the way - not yet clear whereabouts in Southwark

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50031189&PlanId=748&RPID=7198016

Will keep an eye out for the decision and post if local.

[Bic Basher]

Some form of experimental traffic orders relating to E-bike and E-scooter parking appear to be on the way - not yet clear whereabouts in Southwark

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50031189&PlanId=748&RPID=7198016

Will keep an eye out for the decision and post if local.

 

Locally I've spotted changes where there's no parking in the park next to Sainsbury's and around Dulwich Hamlet FC, but you can park in Sainsbury's car park still.

In Peckham, I parked outside the Peckhamplex and was told it's now a "designated parking area" and there are designated parking areas on LL by the shops. You can still park on the side roads such as Ashbourne Grove and Chesterfield Grove though.

[Earl Aelfheah]

This is what they’ve done in Hackney (and Camden and probably some other boroughs) https://news.hackney.gov.uk/over-70-new-on-street-dockless-bike-bays-installed-in-hackney/

[first mate]

Bic basher said: "In Peckham, I parked outside the Peckhamplex and was told it's now a "designated parking area" and there are designated parking areas on LL by the shops. You can still park on the side roads such as Ashbourne Grove and Chesterfield Grove though."

You can park on those roads for now but as Cllr Rose continues to ramp up parking pressure (parking space for hire bikes being just the latest wheeze) you can guarantee that those streets will be CPZ, before long. Let's face it, that is what these allegedly environmentally moves are really all about, making sure everywhere is wall to wall CPZ...kerching.

Consider again what environmentally friendly council does all the above but simultaneously offers to turn swathes of local parkland into a private nightclub in the height of summer.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Parking pressure comes from living in a dense urban agglomeration of 8.9 million people with 2.6 million cars that are parked 95% of the time...and the expectation that parking for private cars should be free.

[first mate]

But it isn't free is it? Every year the vast majority of car owners pay a tax that goes into a central Govt consolidated fund. That money is used for myriad projects, including infrastructure, like roads.

You must pay that tax even if your car is parked in the street and never driven. So I dispute the notion that car owners expect and get absolutely free parking.

CPZ is primarily a mechanism for Councils to generate income and the car is an easy target. Parking pressure has been artificially constructed to a great degree. We all know this. We've witnessed it happening locally.

I do wonder though when the council will start going after those who own wood burning stoves...? Far more damaging to the environment and health.

I also wonder how on the one hand they can witter on about greening streets while on the other they actively seek to privatise and ungreen local parkland?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Most analysis shows that driving is highly subsidised (that is, the amount bought in to the exchequer from car related taxes, doesn't cover the costs of all the money spent on infrastructure and 'clean up' from the impacts). Many of the costs are 'externalised'. If you just look at the huge amount of space given over to cars in London, this is fairly self evident.

[Spartacus]

Most analysis shows that driving is highly subsidised (that is, the amount bought in to the exchequer from car related taxes, doesn't cover the costs of all the money spent on infrastructure and 'clean up' from the impacts). Many of the costs are 'externalised'. If you just look at the huge amount of space given over to cars in London, this is fairly self evident.

Can you post links to these studies Rahx3 ?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Google "externalised costs of motoring UK" and you'll find several studies that all reach similiar conclusions.

But here is an example: https://www.greens-efa.eu/en/article/document/the-true-costs-of-automobility

"A report by the Dresden Technical University in Germany calculated that externalised costs amounted to £303bn per year across the 27 EU member states – According to the authors of the report: “It must be stated that car traffic in the EU is highly subsidised by other people and other regions and will be by future generations: residents along an arterial road, taxpayers, elderly people who do not own cars, neighbouring countries, and children, grandchildren and all future generations subsidise today’s traffic.”

The study said UK drivers accounted for £48bn of costs, or about £815 per person per year. This figure did not include costs from resulting from congestion or ill health caused by sedentary lifestyles.

Motoring related taxes have never been hypothecated, but even if they were, at the time the report was released there would be a £10bn shortfall between revenue from motoring taxes and the £48bn costs."

But frankly, when you just look at how much public space is provided for cars (with only 54 per cent of London households having access to a car), it's fairly clear that cars are hugely subsidised.

[first mate]

The study you cite is for across the EU and is from 2012.

I am not sure how you can accurately extrapolate use of taxes in UK from this?

But you are changing the goalposts. The assertion was that UK car users all expect and get free parking on the street. I was simply pointing out that this is not the case.

[Spartacus]

RAHx3 it's not for us to find studies to validate your claim, it's for you to prove.

The study referenced is not for inferstructure costs vs taxes raised so a bit of red herring plus and as pointed out it's 11 years old and not UK specific.

Please supply a UK specific study and make it relevant to taxes raised vs inferstructure spend otherwise stop spouting that costs aren't covered without proof.

Interesting argument that you are truing to raise that everyone subsidises car drivers regardless if they drive or not.

Its akin to arguing that if you don't have kids, you shouldn't pay towards schools or if you never use a train you shouldn't pay towards the railways. Some things are there for the benefit of all and roads are a prime example as they allow goods to be moved, private cars, public transport and cycling.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I was asked for a link so I provided one (Yes, it looks at several countries across Europe, including the UK). If you're not happy with that one and would like another, you could use Google Scholar, I'm not a librarian. There is general consensus that the externalised costs of motoring exceed the revenue paid in taxes. It is also the case that driving in a city like London has significantly higher externalised costs than the average, so in truth the subsidy here is far greater (hence schemes such as congestion charging and ULEZ).

There are more than three million licensed vehicles in London, and the average car is parked for at least 95 per cent of the time. TfL data shows that 43 per cent of all cars are parked on-street (at the kerbside). A simple calculation taking into account the size of a standard parking space shows that parked vehicles alone take up well over 14 km2 (1,400 hectares) of space on our roads and streets – or the size of 10 Hyde Parks.

[first mate]

But the assertion they are parking for free on the street is not strictly true.

[Guest]

What's that got to do with poorly dumped Lime bikes, how about staying on the topic, I'll remind you that it is LIME BIKES.

[first mate]

I'd imagine the issue will slowly get worse as the weather improves and folk start to cycle again.

[legalalien]

For info, council proposals for experimental traffic orders to out in place parking areas for e-bikes and escooters , proposed locations in the Appendix

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50031189

[first mate]

Thanks Legal. I have skimmed. Is there anything in for Dulwich Village, close to bike friendly Dulwich Square? Surely this is now a destination worthy of a dedicated hire bike parking/storage area?

[Spartacus]

Hopefully it goes hand in hand with a scheme similar to the one being introduced in Westminster where people will be fined for dumping bikes randomly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64943801.amp

[Rockets]

Hopefully it goes hand-in-hand with people actually using them as the parking bays on Lordship Lane seem to be full to bursting with e-scooters desperately seeking a rider. Has the council released any data on usage of the trial in Dulwich to this point - how many journeys are being made and from where to where?

[exdulwicher]

Has the council released any data on usage of the trial in Dulwich to this point - how many journeys are being made and from where to where?

 

It's more complicated than that.

The trial is being run by TfL in conjunction with three operators (Lime, Dott and TIER) and the councils, some of which stopped their trials at the originally agreed point, some of which extended their trials as per the Government's directive.

The "extension" of the trials was to hide the fact that the proposed Transport Bill through Parliament to legalise them has been delayed.

So the data is with the operators and TfL and is intended to be London-wide; although the councils are all providing feedback it's not up to them to be publishing usage data.