Derelict Grove Tavern

[malumbu]

Southwark are building properties. As far as I am aware they don't own the Grove so why blame them?

[Siduhe]

But that enormous site needs to be for social housing. 10,000s still on the waiting list, council paying fortunes out on rancid out-of-door ugh short term accommodation.

Will it happen? The mindset of our current Suthwark council still astonishes.

 

Southwark has been pressing for the site to be redeveloped as a community centre and affordable housing for over five years. It’s the Dulwich Estate who is holding out for a high-end residential development. I criticise Southwark a lot but on this, they are being proactive and community minded. But with no actual power to make it happen.

[malumbu]

Thinking out loud I wonder what the conditions need to be to compulsory purchase, as Southwark did with the listed concrete house, a great job.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Southwark should reduce the affordable housing requirement and increase the density. Right now that lot is housing 0 people, which is no good to anyone.

More widely: landlords shouldn't be allowed to keep properties derelict or vacant for years.

[Sue]

For anyone interested in the background to the Grove and would like to find out more they are holding an evening event over the road at the cricket club with speakers and a panel - all welcome, skaters or not or even just curious, synopsis at ticket link below -

Thu 17th November 2022 (door 6pm, event 7pm~)

Venue: Pavilion - Streatham & Marlborough Cricket Club (SE21 7EX)

=== Synopsis =========

The evening is a show-and-tell opportunity by the Grove community for the rest of Dulwich residents and beyond. The short documentary will guide the audience through the birth and growth of The Grove DIY skatepark. The camera captures an intimate portrait of The Grove community from its tentative early days to which grew organically in and around the site. "Have fun" is the heart of skater culture and there's nothing else to gain from it, and a DIY skatepark is the epitome of such skater ethos - be it in a slightly extreme form. Skaters know too well that a physical skateboard is just a toy, nevertheless they skate like their lives depend on it. It's a way of life, self-expression, obsession, escape and personal quest which are punctuated by landing that trick they have been doggedly trying to a point of exhaustion, and the sheer joy and triumph over their own limit. The evening will give you a glimpse of what skater culture is and what a DIY skate spot can positively impact the community, regardless of whether they are skaters inside or onlookers outside the skatepark - everyone can feel the inexplicably uplifting energy skaters emit when they skate. Such untamed energy has ignited a few spin-off projects along the way, and now these are well-established projects in their own right.

There will be a panel discussion at the end to talk about DIY skate spot in a context of skater culture and its evolution with the Grove as the primary example, expanding to skatability in urban environment and benefit of skater's presence in otherwise uninviting and intimidating environment.

=============

Ticket (free but, please book):

https://forms.gle/4Xxe2n1dyv7P8qex7

 

Damn, I would have loved to come to this, but I've got something else on.

Is it likely to be shown elsewhere, or put online?

[Bic Basher]

the skate park is of course cute enough for such videos, such organic growth is just what happens - empty spaces taken up by artists of all kinds. but now, their job is done, almost time to wander off and find another derelict area and make it grow - that is the nature of the process,

But that enormous site needs to be for social housing. 10,000s still on the waiting list, council paying fortunes out on rancid out-of-door ugh short term accommodation.

Will it happen? The mindset of our current Suthwark council still astonishes.

 

They're planning to build 24 flats on the Lordship Lane Estate next door to the skate park.

[Matil]

Damn, I would have loved to come to this, but I've got something else on.

Is it likely to be shown elsewhere, or put online?

 

Film maybe released eventually (will post in ED, of course), but the gem of this event is to get a sense of the Grove community and have a bit of cosy (but well-ventilated) indoor event. Shame you can't make it but, hopefully this is not the last we can invite Dulwich folks to! :)

[Matil]

If there has to be housing there, I'd say a high-rise with ground level or two for communal/commercial space, simply because the site is facing 2 sides of busy roads with emergency vehicles screaming pass any time of a day, and slow traffic around the junction spewing out sooty fume while waiting for the traffic lights. Closer to the ground level is simply not suitable for permanent living. But build a high-rise and give the lower levels to non-residential purposes might work. The housing of any kind should be physically away from the traffic, be it horizontally or vertically.

[Andystar]

Does anyone know where I can see plans for the interior of the Tavern?

I'm looking for a place to turn into a music venue.

[SpringTime]

[mrwb]

If there was any logic in the world it would be turned in to the new local sorting and delivery office..! We also need a police station / police space at least.

Essentially need to undo the infrastructure vandalism of the last 10 years and rebuild what we had before... Progress is great I guess, we've gone backwards...

[heartblock]

A true community project and a great video. I hope the space stays with the community ..it would be great if the building became a cafe and arts space.

Maybe Southwark could part fund, rather than spend time and money making posh and wealthy roads ‘gated’ communities, unfortunately Southwark Labour Councillors are far more interested in their future careers in politics and development rather than being brave about real communities.

[Bic Basher]

I live near the skate park and it's a great use of a former car park. What I like about the skate park is that it's community led and the users are respectful of the space and the local area. Skaters who come down here are considerate and use the local shops.

[Sue]

 

Great film!

[DulwichSociety]

The skaters are doing great work at the Grove Tavern, especially the amazing Tilly.

To find out more about the pub's history, come to our online local history talk, Tuesday 7 February: https://www.bellhouse.co.uk/events/2023/2/7/the-grove-tavern-in-dulwich-with-ian-mcinnes. We can't tell you anything about its future unfortunately.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's such a great local spot. Hope it's there for a while yet.

[Matil]

If there was any logic in the world it would be turned in to the new local sorting and delivery office..! We also need a police station / police space at least.

Essentially need to undo the infrastructure vandalism of the last 10 years and rebuild what we had before... Progress is great I guess, we've gone backwards...

 

If I had my crazy way, I'd love to see the building retro-fitted to keep its shape & internal structure as is, and the ground/basement level for paid indoor activity space including skateboarding or dance/yoga spaces (floor plan can be kept just like the pub used to be with split-levels, skaters will find ways to enjoy such 'challenges'), above it, some shops/cafe/pub with plenty chairs for parents to chill out while let their kids go wild in the activity space (maybe with TV screens in the seated area streaming the activity space), and a small performance stage (music/theatre/etc) on the top floor with more seating space. Above all, an indoor activity space is my biggest dream - when you dream, you gotta dream big! :)

I also fancy a bike repair workshop on the pavement along the Lordship Lane side, but generally speaking, would love to see the building kept its look and turned into multi-functional community hub, so, sorting office/police station etc are good call too.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Matil

[heartblock]

Absolutely - sounds great - maybe our hard-working councillors can pick this up and think about a lovely community asset?

[alice]

And what will finance this wonderful community asset? With Social services, health and education already cut to the bone.

Southwark right now is a sad tale of 2 cities.

[mrwb]

Personally I would prioritise fixing that it takes a month to get a first class letter delivered to SE22, if you're lucky! There's no base for the police in the area so crime is rampant, will probably get worse if the economy deteriorates. Vehicle thefts, stabbing in Peckham Rye, it's all here on the forum.

Basic services people have taken for granted for 100 years, no longer exist in SE22 in 2023.

[malumbu]

Oh dear. Makes you think about moving to North Korea. Property will be cheaper there too. For those who are allowed to own it. A little perspective is called for.

[Matil]

mrwb

> police in the area

From my experience, just enough number of people out and about deters opportunistic crimes, doesn't have to be police because the perpetrators know all too well that any adult with a phone (and sense) is a hotline to the police.

They just know when & where no-one is looking. It only takes a pair 15 seconds to finish their job, but if there are enough people around, the risk of them being seen & tracked down increases, so they're deterred - they instinctively know where the weak point is in any given circumstances - I wish they use their keen sense of observation & split-second decision-making ability for good but, they know what they're looking for and know when to strike (& when not to).

Just more people being out and about naturally closes off that opportunities from arising - without needing the police.

So if you're going for a walk, you are already doing a great community service by being present out there while doing some good for your own health ;)

[malumbu]

Nice post, with rational people like you around I'm happy to stay in Blighty and will postpone my move to North Korea! Cheers ☺️

[ianjm]

Speaking from experience as another resident of one of the blocks adjacent to the skatepark:

I am broadly supportive of it. I think it's given some kids a great place to hang out and I enjoy the yearly event they put on. Given the previous tenants of the car park were people living in caravans who used it as a fly tip, the skatepark is a vast improvement...

But it did come into existence without planning permission, and it's incorrect to say that the noise isn't audible, Especially now they've installed larger wooden ramps, there is a lot of clacking noise of skateboard wheels on wood . And obviously a bit of excited shouting from to to time. Personally, it doesn't bother me, though I wear noise cancelling headphones for much of the working day - but different kinds of noise bother different people, and have seen more than one of my fellow residents shouting at them over the fence on various occasions.

What I wonder about is whether there's any guarantee of its future after the site is finally sold, assuming this will happen after the Stonegate lease expires in 2025.

I do want to see the pub demolished (or extensively renovated) , and something (frankly anything) put up in its place. But I wonder if the council would purchase the car park for the community and whether they could conduct an actual consultation of the surrounding residents to find out if people really do want it to remain or whether it could be moved to a more suitable site.

I am just not sure there will be a happy ending for The Grove at the moment.

[alice]

There is no way the council could justify spending a huge amount on that land for leisure use when they have already built over ball courts and parks elsewhere in the borough.