Labour

[TheCat]

So....the generally accepted wisdom is that the tories have broken the NHS...

But...

Will labour really do any better?

It needs reform...not just more money....

[Spartacus]

There was an interesting article on the bbc news a few days ago which talked about similar issues with the French healthcare system. Their issues are despite them having a higher rate of Doctors and Nurses per capita then the UK.

It seems to be caused by a growing older population who require healthcare and Exacerbated by the pandemic and flu adding pressure to the system including the delays to treatments and operations that hospitals are now trying to catch up on.

Question is what is really needed, sure more money but that won't solve the issue for at least 5 years (the training time for Doctors) or the issue with bed blocking because there isn't adequate social care (again time is needed to build staff numbers and add capacity in terms of homes) but not everyone wants to or is suited to working in care so filling vacancies is not just an issue of throwing cash at the problem.

I think that the NHS has become a political football for politicians to kick around but the reality is that to fix it is far more complex then just throwing money at the problem.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269.amp

[malumbu]

Labour hasn't been in power for over 12 years so bit unfair to turn on Labour, Cat.

Particularly shocking was Osborne's unecessary programme of austerity, a major factor in the current unrest about public sector salaries.

[Spartacus]

Labour hasn't been in power for over 12 years so bit unfair to turn on Labour, Cat.

Particularly shocking was Osborne's unecessary programme of austerity, a major factor in the current unrest about public sector salaries.

 

I always find it interesting when Austerity is raised, it was a measure introduced in 2010 as the government response to the crippling economic downturn that followed the 2008 financial crisis and the level of cash left in the treasury by Labour.

Remember that the former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy at the time with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left".

Austerity measures, rightly or wrongly, were imposed as a way of eliminating the budget deficit.

Although I suspect that this lot will be leaving a similar note after the finances have been drawn against in response to covid, Ukraine and supporting the nation through the energy crisis.

[malumbu]

I understand that many economists consider that austerity was wrong as opposed to spending /borrowing our way out of that financial crisis, and that Brown should be seen as one of the saviours of the international financial system.

But our generally right if centre media portray it differently. A decade of static wages in our public sector, made more acute by rising private sector wages, haa resulted in the current situation

Bur again we should be looking at the last 12 years not the 13 before or speculate on the world post 2024. Let's face it the Tories have been awful.

[Spartacus]

Mal

We always need to look back to ensure we don't make the same mistakes again.

Out of curiosity, did you think that the Tory's policy of furlough during the pandemic and business support was awful at the time or did you (generic) take the money with thanks ?

Ultimately the furlough scheme and other interventions have caused financial difficulties for the country 🙄

[vladi]

I understand that many economists consider that austerity was wrong as opposed to spending /borrowing our way out of that financial crisis, and that Brown should be seen as one of the saviours of the international financial system.

 

 

They must have been the one's who advised Liz Truss on economic policy.

[WomblingFree]

Wes Streeting (Labour shadow health minister) had some interesting thoughts on this in the FT the other day:

https://www.ft.com/content/3592b0e6-6d8d-4483-9f89-4c909b2defd0

In case you can’t see it (the FT paywall is a bit random) he does say they can’t open the cheque book and “Reform will need to do more of the heavy lifting”.

The incumbents have set the bar pretty low admittedly, but Streeting at least seems quite sharp.

[malumbu]

Throwing money at Furlough was probably necessary. An alternative would have been to tough it out, far more deaths, collapse of NHS etc. I'm sure someone more astute than me can do an economic comparison. The mistake by economists across the world was to encourage consumer spending across the western world when there was a global shortage of raw materials and products.

And as regards to the cheap snipe at Brown from the subsequent poster your time would be better reading up on the subject. There are a few articles out there but most of them are in the Guardian which some won't agree with.

I reckon Brown's excess of public spending during the good time, and encouraging the boom and bust he was opposed to had less if an impact than Osbourne's unecessary austerity, widening the gap between rich and poor, squeezing public sector salaries resulting in the current time bomb

Over to you Cat, you can't start the chat and then run away. Good result for Murray yesterday!