New School Street in Dulwich Hill

[legalalien]

For info, just gone into the Forward Plan for decision in September - doesn’t indicate which school it is. 
 

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50032995&PlanId=783&RPID=9150254

[Nigello]

The restrictions on access to Dunstan’s have resulted in, surprise surprise, illegal and hazardous parking on Goodrich and Upland and Dunstan’s (the bit not restricted). 
The school does nothing to police this even though it has bought (with public money or money from PTA, etc.) portable bollards which it ought to use morning and afternoon to prevent parking on zigzags and DYLs. Basically, the problem has been shifted from one street to others. 

[malumbu]

The problem is drivers.  In fact the problem is almost always drivers.  These drivers are parents but you don't need to be a parent to be a selfish driver.  Write to the school and find out what they are doing to educate these drivers, I'd be interested.

[Rockets]

Given your track record for points and fines you are probably well served to talk from experience...;-)

 

Out of interest, what educated you, as I presume your driving style has changed?

[malumbu]

I was never a selfish parker.  

Just a nosey parker.

[Bic Basher]

Increase the bus service frequency so that more parents can use buses instead of cars parking on the residential streets.

Anyone who rides the buses closest to Goodrich School know how overcrowded they get, so a car is going to be a viable alternative.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Bic Basher

[malumbu]

Trouble is Bic you could have express services stopping outside your house and some  would still use the car 

[Pugwash]

It may relate to St Anthony's and Etherow Street  - I have posted a comment in the general section by mistake. Here it is----

Posted 9 minutes ago

Surveyors with measuring equipment on tripod  out on Barry Road on Tuesday . Seem to be pointing up Etherow Street.  A friend in Friern Road mentioned that they had been sent letters by Southwark advising that Etherow was becoming a school street (Like Goodrich Road) due to the number of complaints by parents parking across driveways etc. Looks as though only buses will be allowed during these times. No one else seems to have had letters (including some in Etherow.  Any one heard of this proposal?

[Pugwash]

Confirmation from resident in Etherow Street, Hours will be 8 - 9 am and 3- 4 pm, Not clear whether St Anthony's school has already notified parents.

[Rockets]

...problem moves to Friern Road now....the displacement continues...

[Nigello]

On 03/08/2023 at 01:07, Pugwash said:

It may relate to St Anthony's and Etherow Street  - I have posted a comment in the general section by mistake. Here it is----

Posted 9 minutes ago

Surveyors with measuring equipment on tripod  out on Barry Road on Tuesday . Seem to be pointing up Etherow Street.  A friend in Friern Road mentioned that they had been sent letters by Southwark advising that Etherow was becoming a school street (Like Goodrich Road) due to the number of complaints by parents parking across driveways etc. Looks as though only buses will be allowed during these times. No one else seems to have had letters (including some in Etherow.  Any one heard of this proposal?

It is Dunstan’s that’s the school road. The cameras deter drivers but parents choose now to park illegally and hazardously in nearby streets. Given that the school hires itself out to summer schools etc. to make money, bad behaviour persists and congestion, idling engines multiply. (The council must have known that without physical attendants the problem would simply be displaced, wouldn’t it? Or am I crediting it with too much savvy?) 

[heartblock]

I thought that cars evaporated.....

[march46]

Surely you’re not also against school streets?  @Rockets @heartblock

[Rockets]

Very much for school streets....very much against displacement and moving the problem elsewhere...if you don't tackle the problem you can never fix the problem - just moving it to the next closest street is not fixing the problem.

[heartblock]

It's always framed as 'anti' or 'against' when anyone dares mention traffic on another road, parents terrible parking, idling engines.

School-streets well planned - great. School streets poorly planned with no mitigation for parent's selfishness - not so great. It's important to understand cause and effect.

It's also important to understand the major schools streets in ED are Croxted and East Dulwich Grove - so what has been planned for these roads to help with routes to school....mmmhhh?

[malumbu]

Simple, don't drive your kids to school.  I expect most of us weren't driven to school. 

[Rockets]

Do we understand why people drive their kids to school, it can't all be laziness? I suspect most of us walked to school but back then the school was at the end of the road. Has anyone surveyed school drop drivers to understand why they do it - perhaps rather than just asking people not to do it we need to understand why they do it and look for solutions based on addressing those needs? Given Dulwich'ites walk so much why do so many kids get dropped by car - and the problem seems to be shared equally between state and private. I know Goodrich has always been a problem and so has St Anthony's - has there been a problem at Heber and the like? If not, do we know why?

[heartblock]

7 hours ago, malumbu said:

Simple, don't drive your kids to school.  I expect most of us weren't driven to school. 

The thing is..it’s not simple because parents, carers do. The whole evaporation thing is complete pish. I cycled or walked to school, the problem here in ED is the private school catchment area and poor PTAL in that same catchment area. Southwark Council did not factor in private school traffic in their ‘plan’ because there was no plan. I never see kids dropped off at the non-private school on ED Grove but JAGs, Alleyn’s and the School on Half Moon are a joke....parents parked illegally and idling in their very large cars, transporting one child.

The parents are not local and really don’t care about polluting my road. The real story is that In ED and Dulwich there has been high levels of active travel for years, which has been increasing steadily. School streets are a great idea, but when mixed with large numbers of poorly conceived LTNs and selfish non-locals transporting one child to a private school it impacts residents negatively.

[mr.chicken]

32 minutes ago, heartblock said:

The whole evaporation thing is complete pish.

Out of interest, have you published your research? Induced demand and its converse (reduced demand) has been well established in traffic engineering circles for decades now and quite widely studied. If you've managed to overturn several decades of research at a stroke, you'd make quite a name for yourself in the field, you might even bag one of ITE (Institute of Transportation Engineerings)'s annyal prizes for outstanding work. Maybe even invited to be a fellow, because it would be such groundbreaking research.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by mr.chicken

[Rockets]

Mr Chicken - instead of throwing stones why don't you join the debate? You seem awfully keen to criticise and demonise yet never actually engage - the moment there's any discussion or debate you always go all purple-Minion on us....it's almost as if you don;t want any debate on the subject

 

So let's see if we can get this back on track shall we....?

 

There is definitely a problem with the private schools - just look at where the foundation buses come from which shows the catchment area for the schools in Dulwich is the whole of London https://www.dulwich.org.uk/foundation-schools-coach-service/regular-routes (see below).

 

Invariably that means many people will also drive - how do you encourage them to stop doing it - these probably aren't journeys that can be done by walking or cycling or public transport easily. Should the schools be encouraging more bus use - perhaps subsidising the journey cost (maybe Clean Air Dulwich should also stop attacking the schools for the bus services they offer as they are trying to fix the clean air problem so surely they should be pleased about that?).

Now for the state schools we all know it shouldn't be a problem but it is - has the council/schools taken any time to understand why? If not, why not. Surely, rather than moving the problem from street to street they should understand the cause and try to resolve that. State school catchment areas should be walkable/cyclable but why do so many people drive - I do know that when the baby boom was at its height in Dulwich places at schools were at a premium and often people were placed at schools some way from their homes but the problem is much bigger than it should be?

 

Central and South West London

C1 BAYSWATER / KENSINGTON / CHELSEA / CLAPHAM Serves all schools

C2 BOROUGH / VICTORIA / PIMLICO / STOCKWELL / BRIXTON Serves all schools

C3 TOOTING / BALHAM / CLAPHAM / BRIXTON Serves JAGS and Alleyn's only

C4 WANDSWORTH / CLAPHAM Serves JAGS and Alleyn's

C5 TOOTING / BALHAM / CLAPHAM Serves DC and DPL only

C7 FULHAM / WANDSWORTH Serves DC and DPL only

C9 TOOTING/BALHAM Serves all schools

CX KENNINGTON / CLAPHAM / STREATHAM HILL Serves all schools

S3 WIMBLEDON / RAYNES PARK / MITCHAM / STREATHAM / UPPER NORWOOD Serves all schools

W1 BATTERSEA / CLAPHAM / WANDSWORTH Serves all schools

W2 CHELSEA/ BATTERSEA Serves all schools

W3 WANDSWORTH / CLAPHAM Serves all schools

W4 PUTNEY / WANDSWORTH Serves all schools

W5 FULHAM / CHELSEA / CLAPHAM Serves all schools

W6 WANDSWORTH / CLAPHAM Serves Alleyn's and JAGS only

W7 WANDSWORTH / CLAPHAM Serves all schools

WX WANDSWORTH / CLAPHAM Serves DC and DPL only

Bromley and Outer London

B1 KESTON / ORPINGTON / BROMLEY / SHORTLANDS Serves all schools

B2 CHISLEHURST / BROMLEY / PENGE / SYDENHAM Serves JAGS and Alleyn's only

B3 ADDINGTON / WEST WICKHAM / BECKENHAM Serves DC, JAGS & Alleyn's

S2 SUTTON/PURLEY/SOUTH CROYDON/ ANERLEY Serves all schools

East and South East London

G1 BLACKHEATH / LEE Serves JAGS and Alleyn's morning and afternoon and Dulwich College mornings only

G5 BLACKHEATH / LEWISHAM Serves JAGS and Alleyn's only

G2 BLACKHEATH Serves DC and DPL only

G3 GREENWICH / BLACKHEATH / LEWISHAM Serves all schools

G4 BLACKHEATH Serves JAGS and Alleyn's only

C6 CANARY WHARF / WAPPING / SHAD THAMES / NUNHEAD Serves all schools

C8 BERMONDSEY / ROTHERHITHE / SURREY QUAYS Serves all schools

Foundation Schools’ Coach Service, Dulwich College, London SE21 7LD

 

 

 

[Penguin68]

There may be multiple reasons why parents (or carers) drive kids to school - from known or feared attacks on children (often by children from other schools - I could site quite a few of those incidents from the last 35 years I've lived in ED) to poor public transport links (including needs for bus changes) - particularly at secondary school age where the school is more likely to be at some distance and a trip which involves east: west travel; through to simple convenience - if a parent is driving to get to their place of work or a convenient station and is passing the school anyway it seems curmudgeonly not to offer your kid a lift there!

Often (for secondary school children at least) a morning drop-off and a self-delivered return to home is a preferred choice. Sometimes (and particularly recently, with school attendance issues post Covid lock-downs) taking your child to school ensures that they are at least there in the morning.

[legalalien]

With well documented falling demand for primary (and to some extent secondary) school places in the borough, but the rolls for the popular schools in the Dulwich Village area (PA5 or whatever it is) holding up, it stands to reason that catchment areas are enlarging and journeys to school increasing in length, which might suggest more parents driving their progeny to state schools? Also I know a number of folk who have rented close to Dulwich schools to secure spots and then purchased (cheaper) houses further away. 

[malumbu]

Excuses excuses excuses.  Convenience if schools needs to be in the equation ie go to a local school unless special needs dictate otherwise  But what do we get from so many of you.  Excuses and more excuses 

Edited August 16, 2023 by malumbu

[Rockets]

Malumbu, they're not excuses they're facts and if the you aren't basing the measures on facts then you have no idea the problem you are trying to solve and, unfortunately, so much of what we have seen from council/s is based on nothing more than guesswork or the word of lobby groups when if they actually spent time identifying the cause of the problem they might do a better job solving it.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Rockets

[heartblock]

There is NO evidence that School streets and LTNs discourage parents of private schoolchildren to drive. The older ‘research’ on evaporating traffic was based on local car ownership and interviews with local residents active travel. Not ACTUAL traffic on boundary rds. The recent research that claimed traffic reduction on boundary rds was flawed as many rds inside LTNs were erroneously classified as boundary rds outside of LTNs. Pish