Football Focus

[Mick Mac]

He's taking a big risk going to Everton. He built a good foundation at Southampton and could have done another season. Not that Everton are not a big club, but he wont go from there to Barca I wouldn't have thought, another season at Southampton and who knows, the Arsenal/Liverpool jobs could be up for grabs.

He could get stuck at Everton. Howard Kendall is the only success at Everton in 50 odd years.

[red devil]

I wasn't suggesting he would go to Barca from Everton, merely he will see it as a stepping stone to that goal. If Everton did 'a leicster', then that's another story. Indeed he has taken a risk going to Everton, staying at Saints was the easier, safer option. But I admire him for that. I think if he does well at Everton he's proven that he can handle a bigger club where the expectation and pressure to do well is much higher than at Saints. I'm pretty sure that clubs like Arsenal will be watching with interest to see how he performs at Everton. From an Arsenal perspective, there's less risk in hiring him if he's done well at Everton, than waiting a season or two to sign him from Saints. As with most things in life, hindsight will eventually tell us if he was right or wrong to leave Saints...

[Mick Mac]

I think he could possibly have gone from Southampton to Arsenal if he achieved another top 6 or better next season - He'd potentially have been available at the right time rather than coming off a transitional season at Everton. I'm not sure what additional kudos Everton brings to his CV - you might be right Arsenal may see it differently. But Pochetino went direct from Saints to Spurs.

[Otta]

I agree with Mick. Everton have history, but at the moment it's a side step at best.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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> Haven't they already reached the group stages? Job

> done probably.

I've only just got that - :)

[Jah Lush]

I wasn't having a go at Koeman for leaving Southampton I was having a go at Southampton for not trying much harder to keep him but if he wants to go I suppose that's the end of it. They've had a bit of luck with their last two managerial appointments doing so well at the club. It'll be interesting to see how well the next man does.

[Otta]

I'd hate to be a Saints fan though, they are the ultimate selling club, just think of the players they've let go in the last few years, as well as 2 managers.

[Otta]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Haven't they already reached the group stages?

> Job

> > done probably.

>

> I've only just got that - :)

Haha, I was a bit disappointed by the initial response.

[Mick Mac]

Victor Wanyama is 1/8 to join Tottenham. That seems pretty solid

[titch juicy]

Very happy about this. If the end of last season illustrated anything it's how much we missed two key midfielders (Dembele and Alli). Wanyama goes a long way to addressing that. Played his best football under Pochettino at Southampton too.

[DaveR]

"I'd hate to be a Saints fan though, they are the ultimate selling club, just think of the players they've let go in the last few years, as well as 2 managers."

It's an interesting question - as I understand it, Saints strategy is to accept that successful players will move on (and managers) but believe that their academy, scouting and coaching is strong enough to keep them successful. If you look at how the players they let go have done at their new clubs, and how their replacements have performed at Southampton, they may have a point.

On the scouting question I'm sure I read somewhere that Saints had done some analysis of which European Leagues were closest to the Premiership in style of play, and also of the performance of imports from all different foreign clubs/leagues, and had come to the conclusion that (i) it doesn't matter so much where the player is originally from, it's about where they have played as a pro and (ii) the best value is in players from the Dutch and French leagues.

[titch juicy]

DaveR Wrote:

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> "I'd hate to be a Saints fan though, they are the

> ultimate selling club, just think of the players

> they've let go in the last few years, as well as 2

> managers."

>

> It's an interesting question - as I understand it,

> Saints strategy is to accept that successful

> players will move on (and managers) but believe

> that their academy, scouting and coaching is

> strong enough to keep them successful. If you

> look at how the players they let go have done at

> their new clubs, and how their replacements have

> performed at Southampton, they may have a point.

>

>

> On the scouting question I'm sure I read somewhere

> that Saints had done some analysis of which

> European Leagues were closest to the Premiership

> in style of play, and also of the performance of

> imports from all different foreign clubs/leagues,

> and had come to the conclusion that (i) it doesn't

> matter so much where the player is originally

> from, it's about where they have played as a pro

> and (ii) the best value is in players from the

> Dutch and French leagues.

This would make sense. Tottenham are currently showing a lot interest in both leagues. Pochettino and latterly Paul Mitchell have obviously brought that focus with them from Southampton.

[red devil]

Signing French and Dutch league players didn't do Newcastle any good. There's a whole load of factors that need to be considered, and who's to know whether a player will settle in a new country/culture or not...

[titch juicy]

red devil Wrote:

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> Signing French and Dutch league players didn't do

> Newcastle any good. There's a whole load of

> factors that need to be considered, and who's to

> know whether a player will settle in a new

> country/culture or not...

Signing the wrong French and Dutch players for their situation didn't do them any good.

[DaveR]

Again, I think its a reflection of the fact that Soton have confidence in their overall set up, and in particular their coaching. The reality is that, at a certain level, every club (except Real, Barca, Bayern and maybe Juventus) are selling clubs.

[red devil]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> Signing the wrong French and Dutch players for

> their situation didn't do them any good.

That was my point. There's no guarantee that a player from those leagues will be a success. There's no magical formula, no mythical production line. French and Dutch league players have been plying their trade here for decades.

I would argue Saints' recent success has been more down to home grown talent, most of the players they've sold have been English.

Anyway, DaveR's post ended by saying Saints had identified the French and Dutch leagues as 'best value', Saints were merely cutting their cloth to suit, that may well change with the new TV money. Spurs might well go down a similar route as they have to finance the cost of building a new stadium.

Agree DR, there's always been a food chain, and with the new TV money, PL clubs will move up that chain...

[titch juicy]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Signing the wrong French and Dutch players for

> > their situation didn't do them any good.

>

> That was my point. There's no guarantee that a

> player from those leagues will be a success.

> There's no magical formula, no mythical production

> line. French and Dutch league players have been

> plying their trade here for decades.

> I would argue Saints' recent success has been more

> down to home grown talent, most of the players

> they've sold have been English.

> Anyway, DaveR's post ended by saying Saints had

> identified the French and Dutch leagues as 'best

> value', Saints were merely cutting their cloth to

> suit, that may well change with the new TV money.

> Spurs might well go down a similar route as they

> have to finance the cost of building a new

> stadium.

>

>

> Agree DR, there's always been a food chain, and

> with the new TV money, PL clubs will move up that

> chain...

Agreed. On paper, the PL should be the most successful league for years to come. Unfortunatrely the game isn't played on paper. Just ask the three clubs with the biggest spends in recent times (Man United, Liverpool and Man City). None of which got anywhere near the premier league title this year.

And Spanish teams have won the last 6 European club competitions in a row (slightly twisted by Barca and RMs spending, but Atletico and Sevilla have also had success).

[DaveR]

There's an obvious and interesting parallel with Moneyball (the book rather than the film). Heavily simplified, the approach of the As in baseball was to analyse how the market for players was inefficient, and then recruit new players against quite specific data driven criteria. It didn't offer any guarantee of success but it made the As competitive despite the fact they had a lot less money than almost all the other clubs.

Again, I remember reading an interview with a Spanish coach (Villareal maybe?) who said that he assumed that he would lose his two or three most prominent 'stars' at the end of each season so the focus was always on bringing in new talent from the academy and bargain buys, keeping a core group of less showy but effective players, and maintaining consistency in coaching and playing style so new players adapted to the team, and not the other way round.

[Jah Lush]

Facking hell! ITV's coverage of Euro16 is already getting on my tits and the game hasn't even kicked off yet. Anyway... Ce soir. Allez les bleu.

[????]

Payet fantastic- oh well, at least we'll get ?40 million or so for him :(

[Jah Lush]

I have a feeling you'll hang on to him. For the time being at least. Great goal by the way.

[red devil]

France have so much talent going forward, but their defence looks worse than England's, going to be a roller-coaster ride for French supporters. A good opening game and a fantastic winner...

[Jah Lush]

Yeah, kinda worry about those full-backs/wingbacks At 35 and 33 they're not going to have the pace to get up and down like they used to, which is crucial in the modern game. Definitely a weak spot for the French.

[Alan Medic]

My wish for England is that Woy uses the resources he has available to achieve the best possible outcome. He doesn't have to pick the best players playing out of their club positions, but the best team. Not that I'm saying I know that. It's more important he does.

Also, to those England fans who can't hold a drink and cause trouble. Go home and stop shaming the good people of this country.

[????]

I have a couple of mates there English fans have been attacked by 'locals' & Russian fans the police reaction is heavy handed - sins of the past coming to get them and undoubtedly some idiots but not quite what the media ate saying. Boozing all day not helping though I suspect.