Football Focus

[red devil]

Tommy1000 Wrote:

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> This is a decent article on the subject:

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9379989.s

> tm

>

> Not about United specifically, but you can see the

> penalty data there plain and simple.

No you can't. You see what you want to see. You're reading them in isolation, not in the context of the matches, e.g. possessional play.

> And especially Webb's record at OT. Quite striking the

> difference in Webb's performance the other day now

> that SAF has gone, which is undoubtedly the

> difference. Everyone is aware of SAF's influence

> over referees and journalists and, now that he's

> gone, the difference is manifest.

Do ABU's get induction training in this conspiracy bollox? Take a look at Webb's performance in the Chelsea v Liverpool game a few days earlier... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2531046/Howard-Webb-shirked-big-calls-Chelsea-v-Liverpool-says-Graham-Poll.html

[Tommy1000]

Possession is certainly one factor, but it's not sufficient on its own to explain the swing in Man U's favour when it comes to playing at OT, particularly when Webb's been in charge. In the 11/12 season Arsenal didn't get a single penalty given at home, yet posted the highest possession stats in the league - what am I missing in terms of context there? And there were countless penalties not awarded, witnessed live at the ground and confirmed upon re-watching. And to add some balance and so that it's not all about Arsenal, I dislike Liverpool as much as I do Man U, yet I can't deny that they've had a rough time with refs over the last few years - this is what your eyes tell you watching the games and it's subsequently supported by independent review of the referees' performances. In just the same way as it's been clear that Stoke have had a very easy time of it with referees over the last few years also.

Context is crucial, you're right. 'Reviewing' games in context is even more damning that the statistics on their own. Recorded fouls stats for example obviously don't show how many fouls were committed and went unpunished. Context is precisely what has made the referee bias at OT even more clear - we've all been watching in context for years and years. This is why - halfway through the season - it's easy to see the contrast (now the SAF has gone) in the way in which games are officiated at OT. Watching games on TV with my Man U supporting friends is quite something; they've been conditioned over the years to expect so much more from referees than anyone else and, now that all of those decisions aren't coming, their perceived sense of injustice is palpable. It's as if they have a lower standard than everyone else as to what constitutes a foul, at least for those 'fouls' suffered by Man U players that is.

Have just googled the abbreviation 'ABU' - now there's conspiracy theory for you. In any case, I'm no 'ABU', I'd much rather Man U won the title / trophies than Chelsea or City. Even when you put the spending to one side, there's infinitely more class about Man U as a club than the other two.

On Howard Webb: anyone who watches a healthy amount of football knows that Webb has been a friend of Man U for years. I wasn't arguing though that some decisions didn't go againdt you the other day. However, I wasn't surprised by the decisions - the two Man U players in question have given all referees plenty of reason to question the legitimacy of their falls to the ground. As for Webb, he is one of the worst referees in the league, by a distance. He constantly takes no action against offences which are yellow or red cards and frequently ignores plenty of other decisions. One of the biggest myths peddled is that he is a 'top referee'. Depending on your level of interest, watching full matches (as opposed to highlights) or reading impartial reports of refereeing performances will tell you this. His infamous World Cup final performance was merely par for the course. And yes, his performance at Stamford Bridge the other day was fairly typical as well.

[Alan Medic]

I think you can can prove or disprove almost anything with stats. Webb reffed many more games at OT than anyone else. Possibly because he appears to be considered a top referee and there have been more 'top' games at OT, he has been there so often.It's not right though.

The fact is it took Spurs to take the lead the other day for it to turn into the sort of footie match you enjoy watching. Apart from the poor decisions, on another day United would have equalised and maybe won. Can't win everytime.

If anyone should be pissed off with decisions at the moment it's Liverpool. They were robbed by them at Chelsea and City and could have led 2-0 in both games.

Still it's turning out to be an amazing season. Long may it continue.

[red devil]

Tommy1000 Wrote:

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> In the 11/12 season Arsenal didn't get a single penalty

> given at home, yet posted the highest possession

> stats in the league - what am I missing in terms

> of context there?

Quite a lot actually. It's what you do with all that possession that counts, for example which part of the field of play it's in. For all you know, 90% of that possession could've been in your own half. You can't deny that Arsenal prior to this season had a reputation of trying to walk the ball into the net, often over elaborating leading to possession breaking down at the crucial moment.

I'll add some more spin on that...you were so good at keeping the ball, no one could get near your players to foul them, hence no penalties. See, stats aren't an exact science, they're open to interpretation, and quite often that interpretation is prejudiced.

Re. 'Context' paragraph...the officiating hasn't changed, we're simply playing poorly, and thus not getting into as many ''penalty!'' situations.

Agree about Webb, except to say he is no friend of Man Utd...but I would say that wouldn't I ;-)

[Jah Lush]

Spurs weren't awarded a single penalty last season yet this time around we've had four already. Work that one out.

[red devil]

Bale did all his diving outside the box?...

[Bluerevolution]

[Parkdrive]

Is the odious BFS still employed?

[maxxi]

Allardyce team talks

1. (To the experienced players before today) "They're bigger than you, faster and stronger and better ball players. So take it easy today. Walk don't run, back off in challenges, don't get hurt and I'll see you back on the bus."

2. (To the youngsters) "You're on your own."

What has annoyed even more this last week is pundits like Reade and Dalglish calling this over-paid, clueless, blame-shifting sack of sh1t "Big Sam" like he's some kind of avuncular figure come to save the day rather than the cause of ALL the problems.

Get out now.

*Sings "You've lost that lo-oving feeling"

[Otta]

At least he can't use his usual line "we're not conceding we just need a striker".

Really hope you get rid, but can't help feeling that your board are scared of him.

[maxxi]

Scared to make a decision that may cost them money (like the refusal to sign striker cover at the start of the season).

It's about the compo money - if he gets the team relegated they'll be hoping he is shamed into resignation and they won't have to pay him off but if they sack him now and DON'T avoid the drop they'll have lost out twice.

Already may be too late & expensive to sack him given that a new man needs cash for players as well.

[Jah Lush]

I'm puzzled as to how Spurs lost twice this season to the Hammers. I don't want to take anything away from Nottingham Forest's performance because they were excellent. OK, so West Ham had some youngsters out there today but they were piss poor to a man. BFS has got to go.

[maxxi]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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they were piss poor

> to a man.

Yep.

Lot's of players with their minds elesewhere and an eye on the exit door.

[Otta]

Problem is maxxi even if you go down nothing would shame him in to quitting. His ego is just too big. He'll have excuses and he'll probably believe them in his heart rather than admitting he fucked up.

Christ I hate that cunt!

[Jah Lush]

You'd be hard pushed to fill out the Olympic Stadium in the Championship with him in charge - or anyone else come to think of it.

[Alan Medic]

Why has BFS got to go after this result? It was no surprise and IF they beat Man City (and surprises do happen), fans won't be complaining about going to a Final. Neither will they when they get out of relegation trouble. I don't expect them to go down. He had genuine reasons for playing a weakened team today. Should Lambert be sacked too?

The one big mistake WH have made is putting so many eggs and money in one basket i.e. Carroll. They are not the sort of club who can afford to spend all that on one player at the moment.

[????]

The biggest mistake West Ham was getting that fat, useless, excuse making dinosaur of an arrogat cunt a manager. I genuinely wish harm of the fat cunt.

[Parkdrive]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> Why has BFS got to go after this result? It was no

> surprise and IF they beat Man City (and surprises

> do happen), fans won't be complaining about going

> to a Final. Neither will they when they get out of

> relegation trouble. I don't expect them to go

> down. He had genuine reasons for playing a

> weakened team today. Should Lambert be sacked

> too?

>

> The one big mistake WH have made is putting so

> many eggs and money in one basket i.e. Carroll.

> They are not the sort of club who can afford to

> spend all that on one player at the moment.

Lambert and BFS completely different situations, BFS has a record of being a poor manager, just ask the Toon. As for Carroll I'm guessing BFS would have had some part to play in that fiasco so is culpable. As for beating City, yeah right. BFS pre match talk has beem dour and down beat for sometime, hardly the stuff to inspire your team at a time of crisis.

[maxxi]

AM - The only reason there IS a shot at a final is that the weakened team Allardyce played against Spurs won against the odds (and because Spurs were so awful) so it is DESPITE him not because of him, the reason he gave then was to rest players for the Man U game - which he did- and which was lost. If you think Allardyce will suddenly be a hero were WH to get to or even win a final you are Barking.

If you thinkk WH fans won't move heaven and earth to get rid of him even if we avoid the drop you are also wrong.

As for today he obviously gave no encouragement or support to those he picked to play nor was he bothered by the result.

HE IS theproblem, the festering sore rotting away at the heart of a great club.

HE decided not to get striker coverage,

HE decided to waste the last of the available transfer money on Downing,

HE made all the decisions playing with no striker/opting for long-ball game when he ran out of ideas (almost immediately)

HE is the major factor in the poor season so far as he offers no tactical nouse, no spirit, poor man management and nothing but a bluff exterior of the "I don't suffer fools" type that masks his incompetence and fools others into thinking he's a decent 'bloke' - he isn't.

HE is a paper tiger. (which is as polite a way I can find of saying he is a useless cunt)

[????]

The owners and that fat cunt should be reimbursing all of the 3000 who travelled up there for starters

[Mick Mac]

He will probably get a stay of execution until after the semi final. It's always good to win a trophy so good luck for that. If he loses that hammers will surely then look to someone else to keep them up.

[Otta]

BBC Website

"A lot of criticism of David Moyes on 6-0-6 on 5 live. Perhaps worth remembering what Sir Alex Ferguson said to the Old Trafford faithful in his farewell speech in May of last year.

"I'd also like to remind you that when we had bad times here, the club stood by me, all my staff stood by me, the players stood by me. Your job now is to stand by our new manager. That is important."

[red devil]

Moyes has got to be given time. Ultimately it's the same players that are crossing the white line. The one's that haven't performed will go, simple as that...

[Jah Lush]

Spot on.

[Otta]

Indeed. Man U don't seem the sort of club that will make a stupid rash change. I've nothing against Moyes, much as I may enjoy seeing them struggling a little bit. I don't expect it to last.