Consultation on banning cash payment on TfL buses

[Laur]

Safety is a major concern as some people have the need to take 2 buses.

For e.g the route 12 from West End to Dulwich Plough, then you may have to change to a 197 or 185 for the rest of your journey.

Or from Kings Cross the 63 takes you to Honor Oak and you may have to change to get the 363 to Crystal Palace.

The debit allowance allows you one bus ride, you end up stranded at night at Honor Oak, the oyster shop closes early evening and you have no way of getting home? Frightening prospect for a woman or for the vulnerable....the thread "followed on FHR" springs to mind.

[Pugwash]

When non London based family members visit- they usually pay cash for one or sometimes two bus journeys as it is not worth them getting a pass etc. We keep 2 spare oyster cards for grandchildren visiting ( 2 are over 15) but hubby usually meets them at the train station so takes Oyster cards with him.

[HonaloochieB]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I heard that oyster will be replaced by

> bankcards/smartphone app or

> a bankcard tech type of oyster for those with no

> bankcard

> or smartphone by the end of this year

JohnL I don't doubt you, did your source know what the reason behind it was?

[motorbird83]

You get the money back you deposit for an Oyster card when you turn it in. Therefore, your family members needn't be out of pocket for the cost of the Oyster.

I can't see them getting rid of Oysters altogether for smart phones. Not enough people have smartphones or debit cards-- despite what it might seem like living in ED, neither things are universal. That would lead to certain segments of society actually not being able to use transport, which would never make sense as policy for TFL. They might introduce the ability to do both in parallel but they won't prevent people without bank accounts or smartphones from being able to travel in London.

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When non London based family members visit- they

> usually pay cash for one or sometimes two bus

> journeys as it is not worth them getting a pass

> etc. We keep 2 spare oyster cards for

> grandchildren visiting ( 2 are over 15) but hubby

> usually meets them at the train station so takes

> Oyster cards with him.

[James Barber]

Cash is a useful emergency way of accessing buses. It makes buses more reliable for the user. I've helped pay for someone's cash bus journey late at night when their Oyster card didnt work rather than see them turned away.

When my kids are a little older I'd expect them to idenepentaly travel by bus, but kids regularly lose things, having that emergency cash backup to access buses is reassuring. Not having it and I'd be tempted to drive and collect them for my own peace of mind.

But most imporatnly do repsond to thep ublic consultaton. While it's nice to share views here they wont influence the final decision by TfL.

[Otta]

Cash is just another thing for the driver to worry about. It's 2013, let's move on.

What does this have to do with East Dulwich though?

[giggirl]

I think it will be a disaster if this happens. Worst case scenario is that you're out and you loose your Oyster or you run out of money on it. Cash is a back up but it would make people vulnerable if they couldn't use it as a last resort.

[A-chan]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cash is just another thing for the driver to worry

> about. It's 2013, let's move on.

>

> What does this have to do with East Dulwich

> though?

I think it's because there are TfL bus services in East Dulwich and there are people who use them.

[Otta]

Hardly specific to th thew area though.

[Applespider]

Laur Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Safety is a major concern as some people have the

> need to take 2 buses.

> For e.g the route 12 from West End to Dulwich

> Plough, then you may have to change to a 197 or

> 185 for the rest of your journey.

> Or from Kings Cross the 63 takes you to Honor Oak

> and you may have to change to get the 363 to

> Crystal Palace.

In my view, that's a separate argument. You don't have to pay to interchange across Tube lines so why do you have to with buses? In other cities, your bus pass is 'open' for 60-120 minutes (varies by city) and you can swap buses as often as you like within that period. Why we can't do the same with Oyster (given that it's already intelligent enough to auto-cap and work out the auto-top ups) is a mystery?

To be really radical, why not allow the bus fare to be deducted from a Tube journey immediately afterwards? So you pay your ?1.40 on the bus but then only 0.70 rather than another ?2.10 for the Tube. You can switch from DLR to Underground without paying two fares, why not from bus to Tube?

The main argument for keeping cash seems to be that we like it as an emergency back up but kids can lose cash just as easily as an Oyster card. Cash payment can be reliant on someone on the bus being able to help with change - sure we've all seen someone trying to pay with ?10 or ?20 - or being community minded enough to pay the extra fare.

Over the next few years, more and more phones will be fitted with the chips that allow payments - and not just latest smartphones. Or you'll be able to buy phone cases that incorporate a similar chip to use as a back up if you forget or lose your card.

Yes, there's the still the argument that if you are mugged you may no longer have your phone or your Oyster, but you may also have no cash at that point too.

[Otta]

Don't kids all get free bus travel anyway? I'm not sure why people are talking about kids. Also, kids with cash on them are more likely to have said cash forcibly removed by bigger kids.

[PeckhamRose]

As can Oyster cards be forcibly removed. But then a kind person could give said robbed kid / young adult / some cash for the bus home. Which they then would not be allowed to use.

[Otta]

Why would any kid steal a free Oyster card, which every kid has. Not a lot of resale value on the school yard black market.

[Mrs White]

Kids can have their oyster cards taken away if they fail to follow the TFL behaviour code. My son had his oyster stolen at school and his wasn't the only one to be taken.

[PeckhamRose]

Kids / Young Adults. To me Young Adults is kids! And if someone has a free Oyster card stolen, it can be done for spite, and the result is the same, robbed kid can't get on bus.

[Otta]

Money more likely to be stolen than Oyster.

Why are people getting so bothered about this, to me it's ridiculous.

My job is travel training SEN Kids in East London. As a result I'm on buses all the time with kids, and you're always seeing kids telling the bus drivers they've lost their passes, and the vast majority of the time (as long as the kid hasn't tried to sneak on) the drivers let them travel.

I can't remember ever seeing a kid pay cash for a journey.

[the-e-dealer]

You dont need to touch anything if you have a season ticket/ Travelcard.

[Growlybear]

I don't travel to work by public transport or use buses on a daily basis, so I'm not in a position where I need to top up my Oyster card that frequently. It is very rare that I travel by train or the underground, so don't can't top up my card on line and update it at a station. Most of my bus journeys tend to be for hospital and other medical-related appointments, and I generally catch a bus from the stop almost outside my house. If I haven't realised that my balance has fallen below the minimum amount until I get on the bus, I am perfectly happy to pay for a single fare in cash, rather than get off the bus, walk to the nearest newsagent, and then be late for my appointment. I have yet to be on a bus that is delayed in any way by someone who is paying a fare in cash; the only delays I have seen are caused by people trying to get enormous pushchairs onto crowded buses without folding them down.

I think it would be a great shame if cash payments are banned on buses and have responded to the consultation.

[LadyDeliah]

giggirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it will be a disaster if this happens.

> Worst case scenario is that you're out and you

> loose your Oyster or you run out of money on it.

> Cash is a back up but it would make people

> vulnerable if they couldn't use it as a last

> resort.

Totally agree.

Otta, my daughter lost her child Oyster card last week and we have now called to have it replaced, so she won't have it for another week (that's how long it takes to process child Oyster cards).

I have had to travel with her a number of times whilst she hasn't got her Oyster card and have paid cash for her. If that option had not been available, I would have had to leave her at home or walk.

There will always be times when people need to be able to use cash to pay for journeys.

[KidKruger]

Keep cash payments.

And what's with some drivers' attitudes even today when you try and pay cash - and this "we don't carry change" BS ?!

[KalamityKel]

The only change they carry is the change they provide themselves not what the bus company provides. Bus companies stopped issuing tills some time ago

[KidKruger]

Which is BS.

Either do cash of don't do cash, nor some half-assed inbetween.

[Otta]

LadyD. How did she get home the day she actually lost the card? Surely after that you had the option of just getting a nornal Oyster for her to use until her new one came.

[LadyDeliah]

She lost it at home and we were looking for it for a week. It still takes a week to process a new one. Doesn't make sense to buy another Oyster for that period. That is just wasteful.

Mine is just one example of reasons why cash payments should not be done away with. I am sure there are plenty more.

I've punctured my bike tyre more than once and had to remove the wheel, leave my bike chained up and come home on the bus. I didn't have an Oyster card because I cycled everywhere, so paid cash to get home and to go back to get my bike once the puncture had been fixed.

[LadyDeliah]

Also the point about kids losing change as easily as Oyster cards is rubbish. Most kids keep change in their trouser pockets and it makes a noise when it drops on the floor. Oyster cards are so much easier to lose. They usually keep Oysters in their blazer or cost pockets and you are unlikely to hear an Oyster card drop out.

Plus people can help a stranded kid (or adult) by paying their fare in cash.

Just because you have no fear of being stranded somewhere without being able to get home, doesn't mean this isn't a very real fear for lots of other people.