Has anyone had issues with subsidence caused by tree outside property?

[EDmummy101]

If you have any experience dealing with local authority or insurance company please can you private message me, as I would appreciate advice and to hear from someone who's been successful in having a tree causing damage removed from the pavement outside house.

I love trees but it doesn't seem sensible to have planted species which are growing or will grow into tall/large trees and need somewhere for their roots to grow... huge problem in this area (stumps and empty patches in pavements galore) especially with clay soil already causing some soil movement. 

Thanks and hopefully no rude replies. Seem to be some on here with too much time, ready to attack or with sarcastic comments.

[Moovart]

If you report this to Southwark they'll probably advise you to make a Third party claim or contact your insurance company. 

Obviously if your building is not yet affected you may be reluctant to contact your insurance company because it can lead to problems in future when you go to renew even if you don't make a claim. 

If it's just the pavement and garden wall etc you could start the conversation about removing/replacing the tree with the tree officer at Southwark, copying in your councillor if you get no reply.  

The claim advice is in the link if you want to go down that route or ring them for advice

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/housing/homeowners/leaseholders/building-insurance/make-claim

 

[EDmummy101]

Thanks, v helpful

[Earl Aelfheah]

We had this problem. Went through insurance. Big mistake. My advice, patch up the cracks and don't worry about it.

Edited March 19 by Earl Aelfheah

[vladi]

  On 19/03/2025 at 11:38, Earl Aelfheah said:

We had this problem. Went through insurance. Big mistake. My advice, patch up the cracks and don't worry about it.

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Agreed 100%.

Don't go near your insurance provider. You will condemn your property to massively increased premiums for ever more. Plus you will find it virtually impossible to switch insurers in the future.

[AllisonAdler]

  On 19/03/2025 at 12:32, vladi said:

Agreed 100%.

Don't go near your insurance provider. You will condemn your property to massively increased premiums for ever more. Plus you will find it virtually impossible to switch insurers in the future.

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Agreed 100% also. We went through an epic trauma getting a tree removed in Forest Hill and were then made to go through our insurance by the council for the repairs. Ended in complete misery--raised premiums, difficulty switching insurers, and all for a few very minor cracks! It's changed a lot over the past fifteen years, from what I can gather, because the previous owners of our house had a much more serious problem with the same tree, but they managed to get their insurance to force the council to pay...

[Penguin68]

Trees in streets can cause e.g. boundary wall disturbance and issues around the trunks, but remember that tree roots in the main go down, so are unlikely to directly disturb foundations of houses, although they can, on clay soils, have some impact on water tables which may consequently cause movement. However trees, with most older houses, even where they may show some cracking are often not actually materially disposed to cause real problems (which more often are caused by building on hillside slopes etc.). We had slight cracks in a front wall facing the street when we bought our house nearly 40 years ago, the cracks have now effectively closed and over those 40 years we have had no subsidence issues at all, (fingers of course still firmly crossed).  Insurers love subsidence and 'rising damp' as it allows them to whack up premiums without any real risk to themselves.

Unless you now have clear and visible problems I really wouldn't worry. And I'd certainly not start any process which may only result in your paying much higher premiums, or making your house unsaleable in the future.

[Moovart]

A good neighbour would discuss the problem with you, take heed of your concern and do something about their tree causing or potentially causing damage to your property. 

Unfortunately Southwark seems to behave like a "bad neighbour" in this situation, not wanting to respond to concerns unless forced to by a third party claim. 

The only alternative is to keep badgering them to take seriously their responsibility for council owned trees in relation to neighbouring properties in the hope they will eventually act.

In the end the residents bear the cost either way ☹️

[Rockets]

@EDmummy101 is the tree causing issues now or is this pre-emptive? Our neighbours had a problem caused by a tree outside their property and the council did come to remove it but only after they had proved that it was the cause of the problem in their house.

[Moovart]

  On 19/03/2025 at 14:36, Rockets said:

@EDmummy101 is the tree causing issues now or is this pre-emptive? Our neighbours had a problem caused by a tree outside their property and the council did come to remove it but only after they had proved that it was the cause of the problem in their house.

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Can I ask how they proved it?  Structural engineer's report?  Insurance claim? Other?

[Rockets]

I am not 100% sure but I think it was a structural engineer's report - the ceiling in their front room collapsed and the council removed the tree in the pavement outside their house.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The thing to be aware of, is once you know for sure that it's subsidence, you have to report it to your insurance company. So decide how bad the issue is and whether that's a ball you want to start rolling.  If it's just a few cracks, then I would just get then fixed up and not worry too much.

[EDmummy101]

  On 19/03/2025 at 14:36, Rockets said:

@EDmummy101 is the tree causing issues now or is this pre-emptive? Our neighbours had a problem caused by a tree outside their property and the council did come to remove it but only after they had proved that it was the cause of the problem in their house.

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Definitely problems caused by tree and clay soil, hot summers = less moisture in the soil etc

[vladi]

Cracks caused by subsidence are quite distinctive. Suggest you post some photos of the cracks here and  we will give you an assessment.

[Penguin68]

  On 21/03/2025 at 14:52, EDmummy101 said:

Definitely problems caused by tree and clay soil, hot summers = less moisture in the soil etc

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But also note that water tables in London have been rising as a consequence of industry closing down. A bit swings and roundabouts. And removing trees as well can cause movement. 

[Sue]

I had very bad subsidence in my front  bay. 

I had no choice but to involve my insurance company. One person who visited said it was the worst he had ever seen.

In the end, the whole bay had to be completely rebuilt. It was an absolute nightmare.

There is quite a large tree outside, but after extensive investigation, including  drilling down a long way and taking soil samples at various points, no evidence was found of tree roots in the soil beneath the bay.

It was eventually concluded that the subsidence was due to made ground (I think it's called), I believe from when the house was built.

I had to have resin injection all around the bay, but the work is guaranteed for ten (I think) years.

And yes, my insurance premiums shot up. At one point  I had to change my insurer, but I found a very helpful company who specialise in houses who have had subsidence, and got a much better deal through them.

If there is evidence that tree roots are causing subsidence, I would have thought that the insurance company would have a very strong case to make to the council to get the tree removed?

Though as Penguin68 says, removing a tree can cause heave (I think it's called), and consequently further problems.

Edited March 23 by Sue
Clarification

[Linsfort]

Could you give me the name of this company please?

[Sue]

  On 24/03/2025 at 12:16, Linsfort said:

Could you give me the name of this company please?

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I will pm you 

[Sue]

I live in a street of terraced houses.

I have just remembered that a house diagonally opposite to mine had major  subsidence in their bay, which was propped up with scaffolding etc for some time.

This was some years before my issues in my bay started.

The reason I'm posting this here is that there is a large tree outside their house as well. 

The tree  is still there, so I'm assuming that the tree was not the cause of their subsidence either.

There is also no sign of further cracking, so I assume that whatever remedial measures were undertaken worked.

Of course trees CAN  cause subsidence, but that is two incidences locally where very bad subsidence was not due to a  street tree outside the house.

I don't know the actual cause in that case (though I could find out, as the then  owner has moved but still lives locally) but my suspicion is that it was the same as mine, as all  the terraced  houses would have been built at  the same time.

Edited April 1 by Sue

[se22]

Many of the victorian houses in East Dulwich were built speculatively and with poor foundations. They also suffered from heavy bombing during WW2. I wonder how they will cope with the extra weight of loft extensions.

[alice]

Victorian front bays were not given good foundations this is what I was told when I had my bay replaced years ago.