Pavement widening outside M&S nr East Dulwich station...

[exdulwicher]

4 hours ago, Rockets said:

that deliberately stopping free-flowing traffic

At the risk of getting extremely technical, free-flowing traffic basically applies to motorways when you start to introduce number of vehicles per lane per mile, average speeds, distance between vehicles and so on - the whole point of residential and "shopping" streets is that you'll only ever have "free flow" in the middle of the night when there's sod all around.

In fact you can argue that such streets should not have "free flow" at all since that would imply everyone was just driving straight through; no stopping, no parking, no "just waiting for my friend off the train", no loading, no pulling out or turning in, no waiting to overtake a bus, no stopping for a pedestrian to cross the road, no traffic lights....

Trying to claim that you should have "free flow" along LL is ridiculous - you *might* get some semblance of free-flow by driving down it at 2am and being lucky with the lights.

And trying to blame lack of free flow on a slightly wider pavement is even more of a non-starter. 

[Rockets]

Ex- you know as well as I do that wasn't the point I was making.

 

Dulwich is basically ring-fenced by awful congestion caused by non-essential works being carried out by the council and TFL. There appears to have been not one jot of forward planning or co-ordination and it is causing significant delays to journey times for everyone whether they are in a vehicle or on public transport. The issues being caused by the Grove Tavern works are utterly unacceptable and no-one from the council seems to care and there's still another 6 weeks of them left.

Goodness only knows what the council is waiting for to finish the Red Post Hill works because it has been in the current state for weeks - again, utterly unnecessary and causing increases in congestion and pollution. I honestly think that certain councils, like Southwark, are keen to create congestion and drag out works for as long as possible as part of this bizarre "nudge" approach to get people out of cars.

 

At least 13 weeks does seem like an inordinately long time for the A205/Grove Tavern works for be completely - one wonders if anyone is measuring the massive increase in pollution being caused by it.

[malumbu]

A rather carcentric view of the world 

And this is not nudge.  Nudge is low cost interventions such as texting people reminders to pay their tax/fines/encouraging parents to get their kids to do their homework as this is the cool thing to do.  Cameron and Big Society.  Not closing roads, widening pavements and other stuff to make things better for pedestrians.

Why has this thread become yet another one going on about the victimised motorists?

 

[Rockets]

Malumbu, nudge tactics are talked about quite openly amongst the council and active travel lobby as a tool in their armoury.

This thread is not now about victimised motorists but about the massive increases in congestion and pollution being caused by ill thought out and badly planned non-essential works taking place over incredibly long periods all at the same time.

As someone so concerned about pollution surely you can acknowledge that what is going on across Dulwich (and beyond) at the moment with regular queues of traffic trying to negotiate these roadworks is not a good thing.

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 25/04/2025 at 15:19, CPR Dave said:

The bay outside M and S is a loading bay. It is intended to be used to park vehicles for loading, notwithstanding that it is raised. It has different paving to mark it out from the footpath and different curb stones that are angled to make it easier for vehicles to mount the curb, so they can park there and load.

It's for loading yest, but not for people to park and shop in the store, just to be clear.

[CPR Dave]

Last night I went to M & S and there were three cars parked in that bay facing towards the shop front (i.e. parked perpendicular to the road rather than parallel to it in the bay). That meant the front wheels of all three cars were across the brand new paving. 

I accept that is a total liberty and they should have been ticketed. It will destroy the appearance and possibly sink the new paving stones causing ponding and an uneven footpath. 

It's incredibly selfish. 

However, if the loading bay had been at road level rather than raised, I don't believe this would happen.

[first mate]

If it is to be legitimately used for loading then I rather doubt that new paving will last long anyway. What was the thinking in raising that area- was it to increase footpath area when not being used for loading?

Off thread, but have you seen the state of the paving around Dulwich Picture Gallery, inside the gates? It is now all cracked and a mess. It looks like large vehicles have been moving in and out of the grounds ( there is building work underway).

Edited April 28 by first mate

[malumbu]

2 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

Last night I went to M & S and there were three cars parked in that bay facing towards the shop front (i.e. parked perpendicular to the road rather than parallel to it in the bay). That meant the front wheels of all three cars were across the brand new paving. 

I accept that is a total liberty and they should have been ticketed. It will destroy the appearance and possibly sink the new paving stones causing ponding and an uneven footpath. 

It's incredibly selfish. 

However, if the loading bay had been at road level rather than raised, I don't believe this would happen.

You make a good point about selfish drivers, but then make an excuse for them

This is similar to some people on this site complaining about fly tipping but then justifying this due to local authority costs for disposing of refuse.

[Penguin68]

11 minutes ago, malumbu said:

but then justifying this due to local authority costs for disposing of refuse.

I don't think anyone on this site has ever 'justified' fly tipping but rather expressed a lack of surprise when individuals selfishly do it once the council introduced charges for household 'large items'. I don't remember anyone arguing against council charges for disposal of commercial and business waste. 

[jazzer]

Not only does Sydenham Hill qualify for the least used if ever cycle lane, they're now installing one along Crystal Palace Parade. Who are the imbeciles who grant this to happen. Do they have any common sense or let alone any grasp of reality. It was utter chaos there this morning. Heaven help us, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.  

[CPR Dave]

It's just a war on motorists Jazzer. 

 

First mate, I think you are spot on - raising that area must have been to liberate the street space for the revolutionary utility of the people when not being used for loading.

It's the public who own the street space, let's not forget. Even though the planning for the desperately needed housing above M and S would necessarily include a shop which in turn would necessitate deliveries by lorry, using and parking on a road.

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 28/04/2025 at 11:23, first mate said:

If it is to be legitimately used for loading then I rather doubt that new paving will last long anyway. What was the thinking in raising that area- was it to increase footpath area when not being used for loading?

The thinking was:

Quote

extending the footway and raising the loading bay to footway level on Grove Vale providing more accessible space for pedestrians

I assume that it's been designed to take the weight of a goods vehicle.

It's only meant to be used intermittently, for loading, so previously was unutilised / wasted space for most of the time. Makes sense therefore to raise it, and make it useful pedestrian area. I hope that when it's finished, there will be a big crack down on antisocial people mounting the pavement in order to park their cars there.

Edited April 29 by Earl Aelfheah

[malumbu]

I'd have zero tolerance and send cars to the crusher. Yep, war on motorists!

[GinSpark]

I saw yesterday evening that they have now dug a huge hole outside of the station exactly where a few days ago they laid the new pavement!

[Penguin68]

10 hours ago, malumbu said:

I'd have zero tolerance and send cars to the crusher. Yep, war on motorists!

Nice to see you under your true colours then, Mal

2 hours ago, GinSpark said:

I saw yesterday evening that they have now dug a huge hole outside of the station exactly where a few days ago they laid the new pavement!

And that's the way call-off contracts work - a steady income stream...

[Angelina]

traffic was fine this morning, happily

[jazzer]

13 hours ago, malumbu said:

I'd have zero tolerance and send cars to the crusher. Yep, war on motorists!

I'd have zero tolerance on cyclists and send their and Lime bikes to the crusher!!!!!!

[Earl Aelfheah]

6 hours ago, jazzer said:

I'd have zero tolerance on cyclists and send their and Lime bikes to the crusher!!!!!!

Which is relevant to the pavement widening outside M&S / the station how exactly?

Edited April 30 by Earl Aelfheah

[ab29]

1 hour ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

Which is relevant to the pavement widening outside M&S / the station how exactly?

@Earl Aelfheah malumbu said: "I'd have zero tolerance and send cars to the crusher. Yep, war on motorists!" - which is relevant to the pavement widening outside M&S / the station how exactly?

[Sue]

50 minutes ago, ab29 said:

@Earl Aelfheah malumbu said: "I'd have zero tolerance and send cars to the crusher. Yep, war on motorists!" - which is relevant to the pavement widening outside M&S / the station how exactly?

Maybe relevant to the cars parked on the loading bay/pedestrian area? 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yup, Malumbu's comment was in response to this:

On 29/04/2025 at 17:17, Earl Aelfheah said:

I hope that when it's finished, there will be a big crack down on antisocial people mounting the pavement in order to park their cars there

...so related to people mounting the pavement and parking illegally. The 'war on motorists' comment was obviously a tongue in cheek response to CPR Dave

Edited May 1 by Earl Aelfheah

[malumbu]

I'm deed. Crushing cars is only appropriate for serial and serious offenders.

Useful guidance here on enforcement https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/driving-offences/

I think they only crush when VED is not paid and when cars are confiscated eg drug gangs, although they may go to auction in this situation 

[Sue]

8 hours ago, malumbu said:

I'm deed. Crushing cars is only appropriate for serial and serious offenders.

Useful guidance here on enforcement https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/driving-offences/

I think they only crush when VED is not paid and when cars are confiscated eg drug gangs, although they may go to auction in this situation 

I read somewhere recently that some councils (?) were crushing the vehicles of fly tipping businesses.

[first mate]

On 01/05/2025 at 10:30, Earl Aelfheah said:

Yup, Malumbu's comment was in response to this:

...so related to people mounting the pavement and parking illegally. The 'war on motorists' comment was obviously a tongue in cheek response to CPR Dave

Are you sure. Malumbu seems so angry about cars and car drivers in general 😉

 

Edited May 4 by first mate

[Earl Aelfheah]

Great to see SUDS (sustainable drainage systems) going in. There was a torrential downpour in central London yesterday (don't think it made it to ED). Flooded the road outside St Pancras. We're going to need more of this as the climate changes and weather events get more extreme.

Edited May 13 by Earl Aelfheah