Driverless taxis

[Spartacus]

Currently Uber are conducting tests with a safety driver behind the wheel in London. 

Uner hopes to do a full trial next year without the safety driver needed in the cars. 

I personally think its got the potential for mass job loses in the industry, and an example of how a company is changing an industry. It started by pitching itself against small taxi firms by offering lower cost to consumers and when it won a large share of the market, it starts to look at how to reduce its costs even more by removing the driver but not passing those cost savings on to consumers. 

Are we sacrificing livelihoods for our own convenience? 

Would you personally use a driverless taxi ? 

[malumbu]

Yes I would use one 

Technology has taken jobs ever since we domesticated the horse.  We are about to go through one hell of a step change due to AI.

Do you still expect there to be a petrol pump attendant, lift attendant, and cashier?

Although I detest restaurants where someone doesn't take your order 😭 

Of course the benefit will be that low skilled and low paid jobs will go, with hope that there will be more high skilled and high paid jobs.  There is always a shortage of truckers so some alternative careers in driving.

[jazzer]

"restaurants where someone doesn't take your order" - can you give some examples pls?

[Sue]

40 minutes ago, jazzer said:

"restaurants where someone doesn't take your order" - can you give some examples pls?

In stations etc 

You order and pay  via an app and then collect your food/drinks at the counter

[Spartacus]

Thanks Sue 

Thats now painted a picture of Mal fine dining in McDonalds using an app to order a big mac and fries 

[malumbu]

Pizza place/bar near the station in Peckham.  No doubt other places too.  I've not been in McDonalds since the 90s and probably less than five times in my life, KFC even longer ago.  As a kid we went to old school Wimpys where you were served at the table, there are a few left eg Bermondsey (the takeaway part was sold to BK in the 90s leaving a small rump of old school Wimpy cafes.

[jazzer]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[HeadNun]

I think it's tough for the Uber drivers. I've met many drivers over the years who are highly educated immigrants, uber driving as a second job to support their families, as their main job doesn't pay enough. They clearly wouldn't be doing this if they could get higher skilled, better paid jobs. 

It's bad enough the damage that Uber did to black cab drivers, now uber drivers will become obsolete as well. 

I can't see myself using driverless taxis, but who knows what the future will bring. 

As for AI, we're already going through a change and I know a few, highly skilled, talented people who are now redundant because of it. They aren't getting higher paid jobs, they're taking steps down and doing menial work they can get to survive. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

As Mal says, we're going to undergo huge changes in the labour market over the next 5 years as a result of AI. Driverless cars are probably the least of our worries. Might be time to get a trade!

Edited Tuesday at 14:43 by Earl Aelfheah

[Sue]

5 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

As Mal says, we're going to undergo huge changes in the labour market over the next 5 years as a result of AI. Driverless cars are probably the least of our worries. Might be time to get a trade!

Never mind AI, I can't even get to grips with effing OneDrive 🤣

[DuncanW]

I've used them in the US - Waymo over  there, not Uber.

It's always tough for workers in any industry when automation takes over - it's been happening for a long time and is accelerating (excuse the pun) - we need to accelerate how we adapt to these changes.

As for the passenger experience... my take is it's superior, by a margin. The driving is smooth, they are proven to crash less than human-driven cars, you have the ride to yourself so don't need to make polite conversation (or not) - you can put your own music on as loud or as quiet as you like. It's a no-brainer really!!   Sorry, cabbies!!!

[ab29]

2 hours ago, DuncanW said:

I've used them in the US - Waymo over  there, not Uber.

It's always tough for workers in any industry when automation takes over - it's been happening for a long time and is accelerating (excuse the pun) - we need to accelerate how we adapt to these changes.

As for the passenger experience... my take is it's superior, by a margin. The driving is smooth, they are proven to crash less than human-driven cars, you have the ride to yourself so don't need to make polite conversation (or not) - you can put your own music on as loud or as quiet as you like. It's a no-brainer really!!   Sorry, cabbies!!!

Great, so get rid of actual people - sure the southwark council will be pleased (hey malumbu, you can be a hero😶)

[malumbu]

Rather daft comment.  As said we have been getting rid of jobs ever since the horse was domesticated.  What on earth has this all got to do with the local authority?  I's called rightly or wrongly progress.  

[tedfudge]

It's fine making everything ai and robotic but then what happens ?

Who pays the taxes ? How do we pay for food if we have no money ? Who pays for everything we need to survive ?? 

It probably will happen in the future where robots and ai do everything,  so even the highly skilled jobs 

Plumbers , doctors,  nurses,  police , etc will be obsolete,  may start with fruit pickers , cab drivers , warehouse and delivery drivers but it will get worse for everyone.  You can probably tell im against it.. 😂

[Penguin68]

Whatever you do, you must never, never, criticise Southwark. You will face the ire of Mal. Who doesn't live or vote there (save in traffic based 'consultations'). 

[snowy]

He does appear to live (rent free as the saying goes) in your head though doesn't he.

[Angelina]

what's wrong with people? just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

you can go to a restaurant and order through an app, and then go and collect your food at the bar, or you can choose to go to a restaurant where you will have a waiter.

AI will inevitably cause severe losses at entry level across many industries (call centres, data entry, customer service). In fact it already is.

The scale will be far more severe than any indication by AI companies etc (AI will compliment the workforce, not replace it).

Do you want to support this - or do you want to support people?

Make your choices wisely - the consumer has FAR MORE power than you realise

[Angelina]

5 hours ago, tedfudge said:

It's fine making everything ai and robotic but then what happens ?

Who pays the taxes ? How do we pay for food if we have no money ? Who pays for everything we need to survive ?? 

It probably will happen in the future where robots and ai do everything,  so even the highly skilled jobs 

Plumbers , doctors,  nurses,  police , etc will be obsolete,  may start with fruit pickers , cab drivers , warehouse and delivery drivers but it will get worse for everyone.  You can probably tell im against it.. 😂

These are very real and sensible questions to ask - and seem to be dismissed or swept way.

There are indications of a catastrophic impact to human life, but that is also being dismissed - and we carry on regardless 

[malumbu]

6 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

Whatever you do, you must never, never, criticise Southwark. You will face the ire of Mal. Who doesn't live or vote there (save in traffic based 'consultations'). 

Totally unnecessary post.  As per my earlier post what is this directly got to do with local authorities?

[DuncanW]

7 hours ago, tedfudge said:

It's fine making everything ai and robotic but then what happens ?

These are salient questions for sure. We need to think about 'then what happens' not should it happen or will it happen cos that driverless taxi has already left the rank

The current economic model will need to evolve just as fast as the tech. And that's the hard part.

[Twoddle]

1 hour ago, Angelina said:

These are very real and sensible questions to ask - and seem to be dismissed or swept way.

There are indications of a catastrophic impact to human life, but that is also being dismissed - and we carry on regardless 

We all know it, no one's asking for AI, no one. It needs smart humans to keep everything up for when things go wrong. Things never go back. One cyberattack and we're fooked.

[Angelina]

It's the tech corporations pushing it, with (literally) billion dollar deals going on - they're not concerned with the humanity side of it, although are saying it will be harmonious

[Penguin68]

In a radio interview this morning it was pointed out that driverless cabs running successfully in the US were doing so in an environment where the towns were designed around motor traffic usage, with straight roads, common interchange (no roundabouts, though that wasn't mentioned) and anti Jay walking laws. We have narrow and non uniform streets, people (and bicycles) on our roads acting unpredictably and little uniformity of road design. The AI challenge to drive on our streets is far more complex and the risk profiles far higher. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Uber trials prove disastrous (not as regards accidents, hopefully, but as regards the system working at all). The trials will be conducted I believe with an expert driver in the car as a fail safe. 

[Insuflo]

Driverless cabs have been coming next year (“he’s 10 minutes away, mate”) for at least the last decade.
 

I think they remain as unlikely as the other things which are always just over the horizon, such as NASA sending men back to the moon or Musk sending men to Mars. Or driverless Tube trains. They won’t happen, not because they are not possible but because the preposterous expense and effort in achieving them is totally out of whack with the possible advantages.
 

What is the point of driverless taxis? So, Uber has to pay drivers now but they don’t have to pay for vehicles, maintenance, fuel, insurance, depreciation or downtime, all of which they will have to cover in an autonomous fleet. Is there an advantage to customers over the present set up? Other than that some women travelling alone might prefer it, I can’t see any other benefit. 
 

From a passenger safety perspective, I’d be happy to use one. They would surely obey the speed limits and seat belted into an NCAP rated vehicle you are unlikely to come to much harm at 20 mph. The dangers would seem to be to pedestrians, cyclists, dogs, street furniture. It’s the planters I worry about.

[malumbu]

They have been on the horizon, not 'next year', and have to go through both the development ana approval process.  The one person who has used them on this this thread, rates them.  So I respect their views not what I heard from Bill down the pub 

2 hours ago, Twoddle said:

We all know it, no one's asking for AI, no one. It needs smart humans to keep everything up for when things go wrong. Things never go back. One cyberattack and we're fooked.

So when your life is saved by a surgeon with the help of AI are you going to think the same?

Seem to be a lot of luddites on this forum 

Edited Wednesday at 17:02 by malumbu