Cleaning up old Harvester

[EDOldie]

There's been a pub/inn (The Green Man) on that site for hundreds of years. Shown on Rocques map 1746. A mixed redevelopment pub/affordable residential/commercial maybe some lower cost offices/studios would help refresh this area. Skatepark must stay surely.  Looks a lot of fun. and much needed on the area. There has to be a pub of some sort. 

The rationalisation of the pedestrian crossing is long overdue (it used to be a Zebra crossing years ago) and much welcomed. Hopefully this could encourage greater use of Cox's Walk and the woods. If we had somewhere to eat and drink at the end of a walk through the woods. Or for those old enough who have used the skatepark, it could be an attraction again.

The Dulwich Estate need to get off their obsession with corporate tenants (although to be fair they have allowed some independent commercial tenants into some of the smaller premises) and get a smaller, more agile, pub operator in there.

 

 

[beansprout]

What ever they decide I would have thought that the skate park would not be staying but really hope I am wrong as in my minds eye, I see the skate park as potential parking spaces after all if it is going to be community, flats, retail units, cafe, etc folks are going to want to have the parking availability - Amir like the parade of shops opposite.

if the skate park goes then I think it is Dulwich Estate obligation to find another suitable area… a lot of community spirit and hard work went into developing the skate park and the youngsters should be very proud of what they have done  and achieved. 

[EDOldie]

Southwark not keen on parking for cars.

[ArchieCarlos]

On 22/09/2025 at 20:53, EDOldie said:

There's been a pub/inn (The Green Man) on that site for hundreds of years. Shown on Rocques map 1746. A mixed redevelopment pub/affordable residential/commercial maybe some lower cost offices/studios would help refresh this area. Skatepark must stay surely.  Looks a lot of fun. and much needed on the area. There has to be a pub of some sort. 

The rationalisation of the pedestrian crossing is long overdue (it used to be a Zebra crossing years ago) and much welcomed. Hopefully this could encourage greater use of Cox's Walk and the woods. If we had somewhere to eat and drink at the end of a walk through the woods. Or for those old enough who have used the skatepark, it could be an attraction again.

The Dulwich Estate need to get off their obsession with corporate tenants (although to be fair they have allowed some independent commercial tenants into some of the smaller premises) and get a smaller, more agile, pub operator in there.

 

 

I agree with your sentiment, however you are mistaken about the Dulwich Estate. Their sole purpose is to make as much money as possible to give to the schools they support, as well as the almshouses and other historical buildings. They do not care about social housing (except subsidised housing for teachers of the schools), refreshing the area, low-rent studios, charming but affordable pub, etc. While they are a charity, their purpose is very constrained/focused and whatever they do with this site, it has to make money for them. It's not that they're being nasty or stingy, it's just what their statutes tell them they have to do.

Note that I am not defending them, but knowing the above helps understand why they do what they do, even if sometimes it seems to go against the wishes of the local community. They are not answerable to the local community, and their only oversight is the charity commission and the courts. And of course, like all bureaucracies (esp those with limited oversight), they look after themselves very well. 

Edited yesterday at 09:31 by ArchieCarlos

[Forest Hill Climber]

Best use of this would be to make a start tunnelling the South Circular.  We all know it needs to happen.

[Spartacus]

12 minutes ago, Forest Hill Climber said:

Best use of this would be to make a start tunnelling the South Circular.  We all know it needs to happen.

Its a long way to Australia, is a tunnel a good cost effective idea ? 

Personally, I would like to see it returned as a pub and resturant, but not a spoons or harvester, something a little more exciting maybe. 

[Sue]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Its a long way to Australia, is a tunnel a good cost effective idea ? 

Personally, I would like to see it returned as a pub and resturant, but not a spoons or harvester, something a little more exciting maybe. 

Many many moons ago, I worked as a mystery shopper for a while (amongst a number of other part time jobs, including a mystery traveller on the buses 🤣)

I was asked at very short notice to go and have a meal at that Harvester, because it was a bank holiday and they couldn't find anyone else to go.

I thought, well, it would be a free meal, and they paid for a meal for two (on top of whatever tiny amounts they paid me for my reporting on it).

I can't remember the exact details, but It was vile. To be fair, it wasn't as bad as a similar meal I once had at the Dog, and unlike that at least it was free, but it would take a lot of wild horses to drag me back to another Harvester.

I don't suppose Spoons would be interested. They closed the one in Forest Hill, and at least that was an interesting building. And the Beer Dispensary nearby never did very well, though probably there were reasons for that (like a very small selection of beer).

But yes, it would be nice to see a decent pub/restaurant there, although sadly I presume the skate park would then be turned into a car park, regardless of whether Southwark doesn't like cars.

Edited yesterday at 19:11 by Sue

[beansprout]

Gosh, free meal for two.. peanuts as in your time..

well, I thought the salad bar was great, unlimited non alcoholic drinks, free bread, butter, etc, god knows at least six dressings for salads, plus oil and vinegar to do yourself.. yup, main courses were not fab but equally better than Mac Donald’s burgers and always had veggies options, plus fish, and chicken..

Gather one sadly around Beulah Hill area has also closed….

Certainly would not have beaten the door down to get there, but equally reasonable price with unlimited salad bar plus various desserts at an affordable price for all…

Not a fan of Wetherspoons at all - all chucked in microwave but equally  can’t knock them for prices and certainly booze is cheap compared to Lordship Lane eateries..

So, what do we all think is going to replace the non exsistent pub? Or would like to see? 

If Dulwich Estates were not landlords..

I will start — social housing, new health centre, Aldi/Lidl/Iceland…A building that incorporates community areas/ library/ roof top space for planting, rooms let out at affordable prices, let’s go crazy here, along the same theme, opportunity to ask local residents what they would like or, who ever leases it or buys it to have an open day and show to all interested if not a block of flats, plans and suggestions… might a well dream on.. maybe, will be second hand car garage… tent city in containers - least would not be homeless and have your own space, key and lock… 

 

 

[David Peckham]

I'm blue-skying here, but you did ask.

In the US, there's a franchise called 'Ripley's Believe It Or Not!'

It's an 'Odditorium' - basically a museum of the strange, bizarre and barely credible.

They always seem quite busy - I reckon a British version could work on that site and bring some cash into the area. They also offer an affordable, quality casual dining experience.

It could be called something like 'Dave's You're Shitting Me?' or 'Bob's I Shit You Not!' or 'Jimmy Hill's 'Yeah? Chinny Reckon!'

And I'd like to see a helipad.

And a 'Koala Kuddlery'

And a windfarm.

And a Mini 'Spoons.

[Sue]

11 hours ago, David Peckham said:

I'm blue-skying here, but you did ask.

In the US, there's a franchise called 'Ripley's Believe It Or Not!'

It's an 'Odditorium' - basically a museum of the strange, bizarre and barely credible.

 

They could include some framed forum posts! 🤣

[Penguin68]

Let's be practical here, eh?

1. The Dulwich estate is charged with using its assets to support its underlying charitable aim of offering education at its 3 school foundations (although HMG has rather put a coach and horse through this by effectively declaring that education is no longer a charitable aim, if offered by 'private' educators by disallowing the normal charitable tax status to 'public schools'). This means that it needs to maximise returns on assets consistent with long term strategies. I cannot see that the provision of social housing, for instance, is consist with that.

2. Southwark Council has already expressed (well it did in the past) - views about usage of the site and whether it can be changed from what it is currently.

3. The effect of recent tax and other fiscal changes (on employers NI and on minimum wage) have made severe hits on 'hospitality' businesses - these are closing  rather than opening at the moment - so many of the suggestions made so far simply don't have economic legs to run out, outwith any considerations for 1 and 2 above.

I would not be surprised to see the site continue to be unused for some time yet - at least until many fiscal uncertainties can be addressed. It does not help that a succession of hospitality businesses have failed on the site - in the nearly 40 years I have been here it's been, and eventually failed, as a traditional pub (one I quite liked, particularly in the summer), a Harvester and then a down market pub/ restaurant. The large estate next to it was unable to provide sufficient clientele to keep it going in any guise - without support from there no hospitality business will thrive.

[Insuflo]

24 minutes ago, Penguin68 said:

Let's be practical here, eh?

 

Amazing analysis here. So the fact that this pub has been closed and decaying since 2012 (following a serious fire) is all the fault of the Labour government elected in 2024?  You forgot to blame TfL and cyclists.

[Penguin68]

11 minutes ago, Insuflo said:

So the fact that this pub has been closed and decaying since 2012 (following a serious fire) is all the fault of the Labour government elected in 2024?

I absolutely did not say that - and you probably know it. Closures in the last 6 months of hospitality venues have indeed cited the last budget as a cause - which is why I suggested those positing a new hospitality option now might be mistaken - but the failures of the prior manifestations were more likely caused by insufficient customers (a point I did make) rather than anything else. I believe the reasons why the fire caused the end of the venue was because the revenues being generated by then were not sufficient to make it worthwhile for repair investment. Nothing to do with Labour at all. If it had been a massively going concern generating profits it would have been repaired (I believe it was insured against fire) - but it had, I believe already ceased trading when the fire occurred. The person who accidentally set fire to it was living rough in the premises environs, as I recall. Although that might have been a subsequent fire after the initial one. Certainly I did happen to visit it in its last days - I was trying to kill time before I met someone - and it was dire and decaying. Clearly not a 'going concern'.

[snowy]

1 hour ago, Insuflo said:

Amazing analysis here. So the fact that this pub has been closed and decaying since 2012 (following a serious fire) is all the fault of the Labour government elected in 2024?  You forgot to blame TfL and cyclists.

I mean bullet point one was so wildly inaccurate on many levels that i didn't bother to read the rest. Did it get better?

[malumbu]

Pubs have been closing for years for a variety of reasons.