Hospital Admissions Data - Violent Youth Crime

[Huguenot]

So for all of those speculators, here's the data. I particularly note that this is based on hospital admissions, NOT the police data which some people are so convinced is corrupt..

"Between the years 2002-3 and 2006-7, the number of children admitted to hospital with knife wounds in England "almost doubled" we are told. From 95 cases to 179. A rise of 88%.

"However, over the same period, the numbers of under-16s admitted to hospital with gunshot wounds has gone down from 253 to 181. A fall of 68%.*

"So, 84 more children were admitted with stab injuries than five years earlier. But 72 fewer children were admitted with gunshot injuries.

"If no distinction is made between knife and gun injuries, the headline might read "teen violence stable."

"Now, every one of those hospital emergencies is an appalling incident. But if we are serious about tackling the problem of juvenile violence, it makes sense to understand what it is we are dealing with.

"A trawl through the hospital figures for all age groups strongly suggests that knife crime is rising: a total of 5,700 admissions for "assault by sharp object" in 2007 compared with just under 4,000 a decade earlier.

"Ninety percent of the victims are men and over 40% occur on a Saturday or Sunday night. There is more than a whiff of alcohol in these figures.

"Given the particular anxiety over youngsters with knives, I looked at the most recent data for under-16s and spotted something quite surprising. Of those 179 children admitted to hospital last year, 72 or 40% were in London.

"Knife fights appear to be a particular and growing problem in the capital. Juvenile disputes are too often resolved with a blade.

"It is a different story in the North West of England. In Manchester and Liverpool it is gunshot wounds that the hospitals are predominantly dealing with.

"Between 2002-3 and 2006-7, London doctors treated 33 children with wounds from firearms. In the North West, medics patched up an astonishing 251.

"During the same period, London A & E departments admitted 225 children with stab wounds compared with 117 in the North West.

"What do we conclude from all this? Well, I don't think these figures tell a story of increasingly ferocious juvenile violence sweeping the land. Instead, they offer clues to the nature of predominantly urban gang culture.

"If you don't believe me, consider this. In 2002-3, not one school child was treated for a stab wound anywhere in central and south east England outside London. How many victims were there in this large and populous region last year? None."

With many thanks to Mark Easton of the BBC for his detective work!

[david_carnell]

Great post Huguenot.

I noted that 40% figure with intrigue. Considering London's massive;y disproportionate population with any other British city we're not doing too badly.

Gun crime is falling amongst children/teens. This is a positive step. I wonder what changes to education/law enforcement/justice have occurred that has resulted in this fall. Could the same steps be repeated with knives?

And Mancs and Scousers seem trigger happy! Worrying.

[Brendan]

Will someone with some time on their hands quantify the inversely proportional relationship between incidents of teenage violence and incidents of teenagers receiving good old smacks about the ear-hole for being mouthy little gobshites.

[blinder999]

*UPDATE 13:00: Sorry - there is one typo to correct in this. The percentage fall in gunshot wounds should be 28% not 68%. The numbers, however, are correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/

[david_carnell]

Sort of like this Brendan?

Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

[Brendan]

That?s the one David. The smacks round the ear ?ole index is something that really has to be taken more seriously.

[louisiana]

And has anyone done the stats for 16- and 17-year-olds? They are also children.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

"Will someone with some time on their hands quantify the inversely proportional relationship between incidents of teenage violence and incidents of teenagers receiving good old smacks about the ear-hole for being mouthy little gobshites." - I can tell you that my mouthy little gobshites were routinely slapped round the head and went on to carry out lots of teenage violence. Hope that is helpful Brendan!

[louisiana]

louisiana Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And has anyone done the stats for 16- and

> 17-year-olds? They are also children.

Legally of course it's 18+ versus under 18, though the criminal justice system - and other parts of the law - have often in the past used 21 as the cut off (e.g. youth custody vs. adult prison). Have we somehow drifted over the years from 21 to 18 then 16 as the marker of adulthood? Is this sensible?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

"In Scotland the age of [criminal] responsibility is eight years, In England and Wales and Northern Ireland the age of responsibility is ten years and in the Netherlands and Canada, the age of responsibility is twelve years. Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Norway all set the age at fifteen years. In most of the US states, the age varies between states but is normally not lower than 7 years. In Belgium, it is eighteen years. As the treaty parties of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court could not agree on a minimum age for criminal responsibility, they chose to solve the question procedurally and excluded the jurisdiction of the Court for persons under 18 years"

stolen from wikipedia.

[louisiana]

'Age of criminal responsibility' is not the same as 'when a society regards you as being an adult' (which covers a whole range of rights and responsibilities and is spread over a range of ages). And I'm not sure, CWALD, why a criminal responsibility definition is relevant to the age of victims of crime.

I'm just wondering why 'children admited to hospital' assumed in that report a definition of children as up-to-but-not-including-16-yr-olds. It strikes me as a strange (new?) definition. In my books, a 16-year-old is not an adult, who still has a lot of maturing to do. Or am I being dreadfully old fashioned?

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure that it's being old fashioned lousiana, just a bit wierd.

There's no conspiracy here, no government or BBC trying to pull the wool over our eyes be re-writing the rulebooks. There's no 'strange new definition' of children. Just a bit of reasonable journalism addressing 'babes-in-arms' scare stories.

I'm sure if you have a look that you can get the figures for any other age group you choose.

I think it's also just as likely that you'll discover that the facts surrounding knife crime are nothing compared with the hyperbole and headlines thrown at them.

I'm sure also that you'll always find plenty of Cassandras out there screaming about fraud & lies, whilst they tear at their hair and rip at their clothes. In the end we just find that things aren't as bad as they seem, and knee-jerk reactions make for bad law.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

It was in response to this:

"though the criminal justice system - and other parts of the law - have often in the past used 21 as the cut off (e.g. youth custody vs. adult prison). Have we somehow drifted over the years from 21 to 18 then 16 as the marker of adulthood? Is this sensible?

"