Should facial recognition be mandatory for retail outlets?

[vladi]

At present several large retailers such as Co-op, Tesco, Waitrose, John Lewis, and Next use a cloud-based facial recognition system that gives instant alerts to the entry on the premises of known shoplifters. 
Around £19 million incidents of retail theft (some with attacks on staff) occur ever year in the UK amounting in value to £2.6 Billion in value, involving 41,000 known offenders.

Shoplifting adds to the retailer's costs and this is passed on eventually to honest shoppers, isn't there a case for F.R. to become mandatory at all retailers?

[CPR Dave]

Probably will be mandatory once Digital ID comes in. 

 

They can then use the cameras on the tills too to bring all sorts of other useful ancillary controls, such as limiting how much alcohol you buy each week, or monitoring and limiting the carbon footprint of the food you buy (some foods now are already showing the CO2 emissions consumed in producing them).

[ianr]

What mandatory action would then be required of them?

[malumbu]

No, we'd have to be in a police state.  You'd have to get this made law.  Unless it is in Reform's policies.  I'll check.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/live-facial-recognition-technology-to-catch-high-harm-offenders

Not government policy

[vladi]

1 hour ago, ianr said:

What mandatory action would then be required of them?

Some suggestions for mandatory action might include:-

1. Permit retailers to display facial images on the premises  of previous offenders at their local store.
2. Sound an alert and display images on screens inside the store when the FR flags up a person entering who is on the national database of shoplifters.
3. Physically bar recognised shoplifters from the premises. Should they attempt to force entry then charges should be pressed under aggravated trespass, which  a criminal offence under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.
4. Change the law to allow retailers to have enhanced powers of citizens arrest.

What would you suggest?

59 minutes ago, malumbu said:

No, we'd have to be in a police state.  You'd have to get this made law.  Unless it is in Reform's policies.  I'll check.

Not government policy

The UK seems to have the most lenient policy towards shoplifting , probably because of other demands on the police force. On the plus side, they may have more time for it now that non-crime hate incidents will no longer be investigated.

Other countries, such as the USA have much more sever punishment as does Singapore where repeat offenders or aggravated cases can be sentenced to up to 3 years in prison, a fine, or both.

[beansprout]

 

Really like living in a country where big brother is  looking at you -, not that it is likely to happen in UK but crime should have stricter consequences.. not just put into jail which I gather is where more bad habits are learnt. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by beansprout
Rant whuch should be deleted

[malumbu]

I'd reread what you posted and try to summarise.  It just comes across as a rant.

[Sue]

12 hours ago, beansprout said:

 

Really like living in a country where big brother is  looking at you -, not that it is likely to happen in UK but crime should have stricter consequences.. not just put into jail which I gather is where more bad habits are learnt. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What "stricter" consequences could there be for shoplifting (or any other crime) than being put into jail, do you think?

Though our prisons are of course full enough already, without more people being shoehorned  into them.

Edited 5 hours ago by Sue
Clarification

[beansprout]

Well sure someone will correct me but years ago, in Singapore and I was quite young so not sure if it is true. but if you were caught stealing, your little finger or just the  tip part with nail was chopped off. 

Stigma for  life as all know that was punishment for stealing… no questions asked.Totally agree it is barbaric but equally putting people  into overcrowded prison for minor offences is also not right. Tagging I guess would not work or maybe does… no idea at all. 

Not so long ago, heard a talk about how European’s cope/deal with prisoners and how the suggest rate is higher and offences lowered greatly as in not going back to prison for same  or another offence. 

The general gist was their approach was each prisoner mattered , was heard and listens to and a suitable package was tailored towards their needs. Not  b one package for all. Not cooped up for the majority of the day - encouraged as an example to cook, garden, grow food, other household stuff  plus study if wanted for courses, languages etc. and mental health, dependency on substance abuse also addressed.

Can’t remember if they were paid c pocket money which clearly accumulated or could be used to  I purchase whatever in prison.

If they can do it by experimenting and I think but not sure, at the time an English prison was learning why can’t this sort of program be rolled  out throughout UK - cut backs not an excuse - think of the millions lost by govt during Covid… 

Maybe it is - no experience in the matter at all. 

 

[Sue]

I agree there are other options, but apart from cutting off bits of the body, which is probably not going to happen here, at least hopefully not in my lifetime, I wouldn't call them"stricter"!

Unfortunately ultimately it may depend on what is cost effective in terms of implementation.

[vladi]

@beansprout The Swedes seem to have a useful strategy with regard to offenders  which has reduced repeat offending. 

I agree that prison time for minor offences is a complete waste of time. Even worse is that prisons are "colleges of crime" where inmates learn about how to be do crimes and worst of all, become exposed to drug taking.

I wouldn't advocate having chain gangs as in the USA but some strategy for getting them into say manual work under supervision might be useful - especially if it came with a modest wag. This would be significantly cheaper than the £51,100 it costs per year for  keeping one in jail.

[beansprout]

Wow, that is what it costs for one prisoner.

So they get full board and lodging, 24 hour  monitoring  in over populated prison, we are led to believe, minimum exercise, assume a tv in each cell provided - in USA it is together with wash hand basin and c toilet - some have showers as well.
 

Clearly this amount of money takes  into account overstretched and overworked prison officers, protection for them, counselling which is, in my opinion a bare minimum dealing with prisoners in all settings.

Do if Sweden can look outside the box, why can’t we? Or are we just not bothered at all / read statistics some where that reoffending is normal and to be frank, with economy as it is at the moment re employment, cost of living and homelessness..not surprised they reoffend to get back inside - food provided, roof over your head - much better than street living, mixing with wrong crowd, trying to get roof over your head, find a job where 90 % won’t employ you as been inside..

[malumbu]

Community payback already exists

 

https://www.gov.uk/community-sentences/community-payback

[Angelina]

What kind of witch hunt is this? mandatory facial recognition? prison for shoplifters?

Shops can protect their stock as they wish. but they choose profits first. 

The obvious solution would be delivery only - and when you can get your shopping in 15minutes, who really needs to go to the shop? but no, the shops like the sales from people browsing and being hungry when they shop. They don't lay the shops out for our enjoyment.

They don't actually care that much. If they did, there would be active and empowered security, lower stock on shelves, more security tags etc... don't be fooled.

If you're going to go after shoplifters, go after the organised crime, theft to order etc

 

[malumbu]

So what you are saying is that shops encourage shoplifting as it is good for their business?  Rather a curious view.

However.... for every stolen good there has to be a market, whether from a shop, burgled house, stolen bike so those buying knock off goods are guilty too.  As you infer.

And one size doesn't fit all, petty shop lifting, kids being naughty, those desperate due to poverty - including addicts both to illegal substances and 'legal' including gambling, and those making a business out of it are very different.

[Angelina]

that isn't what I said at all.