Cyclist visibility

[Raeburn]

What did I experience then?

What are all these central Amsterdam livecams showing? I can see pedestrians going about their day, people in vehicles, people on bikes, micro-mobility, cargo bikes, delivery vehicles, service vehicles, trams. Looks very harmonious to me. None of the chaos, the utter nightmare, over the entire district.

Current evidence for cross-town nightmare-chaos is  .....you, an anonymous poster, on a forum, hundreds of miles away - ?

--------

I understand this is sport to you, and you're carrying on/will carry on despite all the clear evidence. I'd say this is the definition of a troll. ...which I'll keep saying, totally undermines any reasonable points in the discussion.

Enjoy the cams, quite soothing!

[first mate]

40 minutes ago, Raeburn said:

evidence for cross-town nightmare-chaos is  .....you, an anonymous poster, on a forum, hundreds of miles away - ?

Ermm and the many videos of cycle rush-hour that can be found online demonstrating the issues that some Amsterdam residents are concerned about...plus others who have visited and have a different experience from yours.

[Raeburn]

Again, I don’t think you’ve been following this Mate. Upthread I paraphrased;

‘Some locals occasionally get frustrated with the number of tourists at peak times’  

Which is true of any tourist hotspot, and is completely different from;

‘downtown Amsterdam where the frustration and anger towards cyclists is palpable‘

‘anywhere inside Singelgracht is a nightmare for pedestrians‘

All the pedestrians in the cams seem unaware of this supposed district-wide chaos - and I reckon most of the cyclist are residents. People going to work, young people going to school, delivery riders on cargo bikes.
 

But sure, go ahead, argue with a LiveCam.

[Rockets]

2 hours ago, first mate said:

Ermm and the many videos of cycle rush-hour that can be found online demonstrating the issues that some Amsterdam residents are concerned about...plus others who have visited and have a different experience from yours.

 @first mate you must remember that only a cyclist's view of how other cyclists behave is allowed...unless it's coming from a cyclist who doesn't turn a blind eye to bad cycling! 😉

 

2 hours ago, Raeburn said:

‘Some locals occasionally get frustrated with the number of tourists at peak times’  

@Raeburn are you claiming that is what I said - a reminder of what I said below.

On 26/11/2025 at 17:20, Rockets said:

Spend some more time there, maybe have a chat to the locals - I think you'll find they'll agree with me more than you! They'll probably tell you during the summer months, and especially during the height of the tourist season, that the inner-city is blighted by cyclists (especially tourists).

At the end of the day @Raeburn is entitled to their opinion but it doesn't make mine wrong (as much as they try to project that). Maybe @Raeburnhas been visiting regularly and is basing their opinion on those visits. But what undermines their narrative and massively supports mine is that Amsterdam authorities are actively trying to police problem cycles and cyclists (in the face of rising injuries and accidents caused to and by cyclists) and no amount of protestations that a "fatbike isn't a bike but a moped" is going to change that.

[exdulwicher]

37 minutes ago, Rockets said:

But what undermines their narrative and massively supports mine is that Amsterdam authorities are actively trying to police problem cycles and cyclists (in the face of rising injuries and accidents caused to and by cyclists) and no amount of protestations that a "fatbike isn't a bike but a moped" is going to change that.

Surely it is the responsibility of the highways authority (not sure about Amsterdam but over here it'd mostly be the local council) to manage any issues within transportation? That's literally their job to look at problems, issues etc and deal with them.

That could include:
buses not running on time
too many cars
growing use of e-motorbikes / fatbikes / e-mopeds 
overcrowding at a station
etc

A few years ago, there were very few e-motorbikes and as they came along the legislation hasn't really kept up so a blind eye might have been turned to them using cycle lanes but now there are a lot more of them, they're faster than regular bikes and e-bikes and maybe the law needs changing a bit to recognise that?

That's not a "problem". It's a highways authority doing what they're paid to do. Same way as over here people are finally realising that there are simply too many cars and they might need to do something (or some things) to discourage car use a bit.

Again, not really a "problem", it's just an evolution of local needs in conjunction with some regional / national strategic oversight.

And yes, fatbikes are not e-bikes. Same with those delivery riders around here, they're not e-bikes. They're illegally modified / illegally used electric motorbikes, or electric mopeds It's really quite an important distinction. Normal legal e-bikes (25kph, pedal operated etc) are classed in law as bicycles. Electric mopeds / motorbikes, any form of bicycle with a throttle is classed as a motorbike. That's the law, regardless of what you want to believe or what the lazier elements of the media print.

Edited 1 hour ago by exdulwicher

[Raeburn]

46 minutes ago, Rockets said:

no amount of protestations that a "fatbike isn't a bike but a moped" is going to change that.

“Everyone knows a fatbike is very different to an e-bike,” she said. “The tyres are wider, the bikes are heavier and you don’t need to pedal to move forward, so they are more like a moped than a bike.”

Selectively ignoring the words of the traffic police chief posted above.

Again, sure, go ahead and argue with the police.

[Rockets]

Oh dear... @Raeburn here we go again...let me explain so you can get your facts straight. The person quoted is not the traffic police chief but the deputy mayor - she is a politician (who has responsibility for, amongst other things traffic and transport): https://www.amsterdam.nl/en/governance/the-college-of-mayor-and-alderpersons/melanie-van-der-horst/

She is saying a fatbike is very different to an e-bike because Dutch central government claims you cannot differentiate between a normal e-bike and a fatbike (most are pedal assist etc) and the local authorities know they cannot ban fatbikes because it would be legally complex to do so due to how close they are to e-bikes (the key is that fatbikes can be easily modified once purchased).  She is threatening to legally challenge the Dutch government on this issue. 

She is a politician lobbying for more local control vs central government rules to address local problems with certain types of bikes (and e-scooters and large cargo bikes).

1 hour ago, exdulwicher said:

And yes, fatbikes are not e-bikes.

In the eyes of the Dutch government (law?) they are and this is the whole point and remember she is also lobbying to be able to legislate against step-on e-scooters (in your eyes what are these - extremely narrow two-wheeled standing cars?) and large cargo bikes (two wheeled electric hearses?) from using bike lanes.

 

[Raeburn]

“Everyone knows a fatbike is very different to an e-bike,”
Everyone apart from Rockets?