PM surely as a country we are better than this (Reform setting the agenda on immigration)

[malumbu]

I wrote to Ellie during Labour conference due to their continued focus on the boats telling her that most of my friends and family believe there are more important things to focus on than the small boats.  That does not mean it should not be addressed, but sadly this has become a toxic issue stirred up by Reform, the right wing media/rabid social media, to a lesser extent Bedenock and Philp, and sadly Labour itself.  Mahmood's statement today that illegal migration is "tearing the country apart" makes me shudder.  All credit to Plaid Cymru for their stance in the Caerphilly Welsh Parliament by-election.

PM and Home Secretary you are encouraging this.  Just repeat after me "as a country we are better than this".

Well perhaps some will think that I live in a liberal bubble and I am not in touch with the 'common people".  I'd like to think we are all better than this. And that includes the other culture wars that Reform will continue to stoke up including Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, and gender politics.  

 

[Sephiroth]

Absolutely mental what Labour have become/are doing 

because I’m me - I am going to say, it was the denial of reality that was the 2016 referendum, the genuflection of it ever since and the aggressive behaviour of the right wing press ever since that have cowed weak, spineless politicians 

Until them at shibboleth is defeated, we can replace governments and leaders as much as we want - won’t make a tack of difference 

we are in bizarro world since 2016 - only the electorate recognising that vocally will we see improvements 

without that, every government, party and leader will be in hock to fantasists 

(there are things govts can do regardless of Brexit. Of course there are. But the root - the root problem - will continue to infect)

[vladi]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

But the root - the root problem - will continue to infect)

What s the root problem you refer to?

[Sue]

3 hours ago, vladi said:

What s the root problem you refer to?

Brexit, I presume.

Effing disastrous.

Edited November 16, 2025 by Sue

[Jenijenjen]

And those responsible for the catastrophe of Brexit - politicians, press, electorate - are deflecting anger on to immigrants rather than looking in the mirror.

[Jenijenjen]

We are certainly better as a country than implementing the latest vile proposals from Mahmood  about seizing immigrants' jewellery

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/17/refugees-jewellery-asylum-home-office?CMP=share_btn_url

[Sephiroth]

10 hours ago, Sue said:

Brexit, I presume.

Effing disastrous.

Brexit - but not simply the act of leaving the EU, as damaging as that is in and of itself

But everything around it. - the madness of "taking back control", "they need us more than we need them", the increase in volume and extremity of lies required to get it over the line, the clear denial of reality - all of that has led to the current situation where parties of left and right can win huge majorities and find out the beast of anti-immigration can never be sated

the course correction involves acknowledging as a country that we need immigration and lots of it (related: acknowledge we aren't as special case when it comes to asylum and refugees - other countries take proportionally more)  We need to be part of the EU. Climate change in and of itself will see global increase in migrations - we need to be building systems that welcome and accommodate the future - not stick our heads in the sand like hobbits 

If we don't collectively agree around this then the descent into authoritarian right-wing madness will continue

Edited November 17, 2025 by Sephiroth

[CPR Dave]

Maybe we don't need lots of immigration actually.

We have 1.8 million people already living here who are unemployed right now. We could offer them work first before we import cheaper labour that keeps people on the scrap heap.

And once they are in work they might feel secure enough to start a family of their own solving some of the so-called population crisis caused by low birth rates, instead of simply importing new people to pay the boomers' pensions.

Edited November 17, 2025 by CPR Dave

[Sue]

10 hours ago, Jenijenjen said:

We are certainly better as a country than implementing the latest vile proposals from Mahmood  about seizing immigrants' jewellery

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/17/refugees-jewellery-asylum-home-office?CMP=share_btn_url

Yes.

Appalling.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, CPR Dave said:

Maybe we don't need lots of immigration actually.

We have 1.8 million people already living here who are unemployed right now. We could offer them work first before we import cheaper labour that keeps people on the scrap heap.

And once they are in work they might feel secure enough to start a family of their own solving some of the so-called population crisis caused by low birth rates, instead of simply importing new people to pay the boomers' pensions.

Are you telling me to pack my bags then Dave? have I taken  too much from your country already? 
 

what about all the English abroad - where you going to put them when the arrive back if they get chucked out by their host countries?

 

grow up man 

[malumbu]

Sadly we need young people from developing countries with higher birth rates to do the work that Brits wont do, including many jobs in health and social care.  How you square this with minimum wages to get work visas I don't know.  A different subject for another thread.

 

Shortage of skilled workers is another topic.  We could return to the fact that young people from Europe no longer come to the UK for a limited time, to do both skilled and unskilled jobs, but that would bring us back to Brexit and the crazy decision we made as a nation.

Some nice analysis by Sky News, tend not to use them as a rule but was surprised by the quality of this piece:

https://news.sky.com/story/how-many-illegal-migrants-are-in-britain-the-key-numbers-driving-the-immigration-debate-13428405

 

[CPR Dave]

the 1.8 million unemployed Brits could do the work that Brits won't do. Make minimum wage higher than the maximum benefits payments. So it's more profitable to be in work than it is to be unemployed.

 

anyway, round 2 today of Labour's attack on immigration. This one is reminiscent of their "hostile environment" that Liam Byrne created in 2007.