20 mph zones on Lordship Lane

[Lowlander]

silverfox Wrote:

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..........I must admit I found it difficult to stay at or under 20mph with my car

> but I tried my best. There was nobody else on the

> road and I felt like I was driving in slow motion.

> I then saw a sign - something to the effect

> 'Islington, London's first 20mph Borough'.

>

> Call me stupid but what has that council got to be

> proud of there? It is probably costing the London

> economy billions of pounds in lost

> revenue/productivity because of the delays this

> foolhardy decision is causing.

>

> On topic - James you should be ashamed if you

> backed this idiotic 20mph speed limit on Lordship

> Lane

If you found it hard to control a car in order to keep its speed at or under 20mph, you should really should surrender your license and see a doctor.

[AbDabs]

James Barber Wrote:

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>

> Often on this forum you suddenly see a thread that

> lordship Lane is closed for a number of hours

> while the mess from a crash is sorted out. We're

> all paying too high a price for such crashes and

> this measure of 20mph will help reduce it.

Just out of interest (because I simply don't know), how many of the crashes you refer to involved cars travelling at more than 20mph but have been caused by people who are otherwise complying with the law and paying due care and attention, ie by people who are likely to take any notice of a 20mph limit?

[James Barber]

The lower the speed the less severe any consequent crash will be. soo all of the crashes will have some speed element.

[Loz]

Hmm - avoided the question nicely there, James.

[James Barber]

Sorry Loz. PerhaPs i sohuld have said I can't answer your question. I don't know that speeding caused none or all or some of the crashes.

But I do speed will make the probality higher of crashes - less reaction time - and the severity higher - more kinetic energy involved.

[Mrs TP]

James Barber - I meant more signage relating to the zone i.e. it's start and end zones are now thankfully clearly defined and I am not just seeing the odd random 20 on the road.

[James Barber]

Hi Mrs TP,

Sorry I misunderstaood.

Part of the reasoning for this 20mph in particular is a Living Street report called The pedestrian pound. Making the main high street of Lordship Lane should make it better for people to walk around. We've added two extra formal crossings before, had many side roads with raised treatments, improved Goose Green with thrid arm having zebra crossings. Any way the reports key findings:

?Research shows that making places better for walking can boost footfall and trading by up to 40%

?Good urban design can raise retail rents by up to 20%

?International and UK studies have shown that pedestrians spend more than people arriving by car. Comparisons of spending by transport mode in Canada and New Zealand revealed that pedestrians spent up to six-times more than people arriving by car. In London town centres in 2011, walkers spent ?147 more per month than those travelling by car

?Retailers often overate the importance of the car ? a study Graz, Austria, subsequently repeated in Bristol found that retailers overestimated the number of customers arriving by car by almost 100%

?Landowners and retailers are willing to pay to improve the streetscape in order to attract tenants and customers.

http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/library/Reports/PedestrianPound_fullreport_web.pdf

[edhistory]

James Barber Wrote:

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> ?Good urban design can raise retail rents by up to 20%

Bad.

John K

[davidh]

can't remember many times being able to drive at 20mph on lordship lane for years. certainly not now there are pedestrian lights every six feet. it is all loony.. any main road is for traffic. it has cost a fortune to tackle a problem that wasn't there

[spider69]

What will people talk about now in toasted?

Strange how people coped in the past that lived locally with traffic

[Henry17]

This good news and should be extended and enforced. Drivers in this area are relatively wreckless in aggregate and need to have a higher level of control exterted over them than elsewhere.

My basis for this is personal observation, and a significant sample size of black cab drivers who have remarked to me that the driving culture is notably more aggressive here.

[spider69]

Henry17 Wrote:

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> This good news and should be extended and

> enforced. Drivers in this area are relatively

> wreckless in aggregate and need to have a higher

> level of control exterted over them than

> elsewhere.

>

> My basis for this is personal observation, and a

> significant sample size of black cab drivers who

> have remarked to me that the driving culture is

> notably more aggressive here.

Pot calling the kettle black. More aggressive compared to where?

[Henry17]

spider,

black cabs tend to cover the london area, so the comparisons are being made to this broad region.

[catma]

Looks like we'll be doing 20 mph everywhere

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/article/1422/southwark_takes_final_steps_towards_becoming_a_20mph_borough

[TheArtfulDogger]

How is this going to be enforced ?

Are the council expecting the already stretched thin local policing team (formally SNT) to stand there and monitor the speed of cars whilst houses are being broken into ?

Or will the council be putting cameras in next ?

Either way, as it is a council set limit and not a national speed limit, enforcement will be almost impossible plus the number of crossings (as previously mentioned) will make it a fairly pointless exercise

[James Barber]

The mere fact of it now being 20mph will reduce speeds by an average of 2-3mph.

The government has written to ACPO to insist they enforce 20mph speed limits.

The local Dulwich Safer Neighbourhood Team are asking residents to volunteer to help with speed enforcement - anyone interested let me know by email and I'll put them in touch with the relevant Police sgt.

[Earl Aelfheah]

catma Wrote:

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> Looks like we'll be doing 20 mph everywhere

> http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/article/1422/sout

> hwark_takes_final_steps_towards_becoming_a_20mph_b

> orough

Does this mean even more speed bumps across Southwark?

[spider69]

James Barber Wrote:

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> The mere fact of it now being 20mph will reduce

> speeds by an average of 2-3mph.

>

> The government has written to ACPO to insist they

> enforce 20mph speed limits.

>

> The local Dulwich Safer Neighbourhood Team are

> asking residents to volunteer to help with speed

> enforcement - anyone interested let me know by

> email and I'll put them in touch with the relevant

> Police sgt.

Why do we need a local vigilante group to help with speed enforcement. This is the job of trained police officers not people who have their own agenda and will do all they can to push it. Think bikes on pavements and dogs in parks.

You only have to read postings on this forum to be worried.

[henryb]

Reporting crime doesn't make you a vigilante. What is there to worry about? That people driving at excessive speeds in residential streets will be fined?

[Loz]

henryb Wrote:

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> Reporting crime doesn't make you a vigilante. What is there to worry about? That people driving at

> excessive speeds in residential streets will be fined?

Sorry, but the only way you can monitor speeding is with officially sanctioned (and calibrated) speed measurement equipment. Having someone on the street deciding if people are going 'too fast; is nuts. What is to stop a few nutter cyclists with an agenda (cough, cough) getting involved in this and falsifying claims?

Or, if this OK, can we have another 'group of concerned citizens' enforcing riding on the pavement, through stop signs, red lights, etc?

[matryx]

Why are you making this about cycling when it's unrelated?

I would imagine in your unlikely scenario of a cyclist-fronted-anti-car-group trying to fabricate evidence of speeding the equipment will be tamper proof and individuals will undergo rigorous training and background checks.

[Loz]

matryx Wrote:

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> Why are you making this about cycling when it's unrelated?

The post I replied to was by henryb, so it's very, very related...

[matryx]

I don't see the relevance. He's not mentioned cycling at all in his post?

[henryb]

Why does the fact it was directed at me make an off topic unsubstantiated abusive personal attack make it relavant to the thread?

[Loz]

henryb only posts to have a pop at motorists or to claim cyclists are faultless and wonderful. Check his/her posting history. Had it been just about anyone else probably I wouldn't have made that comment.