Jump to content

Recommended Posts

A mini housing boomlet does not a recovery make; despite the 'austerity' we are not even forecast to balance the books for 4 more years.....4 more years in which the national debt continues to rise; we have a series of off book liabilities which ' don,t count' but will cripple govt spending over the next 30 years or so - the state pension; public sector pension liabilities; and PFI. These, particularly the pensions, will grow massively as longer lives combined with baby boomers retiring rack these up monumentally; if or when interest rates go up this will get worse, as our govt debt incurs more interest - it's horrific at the moment even with the UK,s cost of borrowing being historically cheap. western economies nearly all face this demographic and fiscal timebomb= massive inflation or a massive reduction in what the state will be able to afford to do. Retirement age to 75? the NHS means tested? Euthanasia? The 20th century model of the western welfare state is dying my friends......be prepared
Link to comment
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/39302-the-economya-reality-check/
Share on other sites

I think increasing the retirement age is a must. It could possibly be graded - those over 40 now have to work to 70. Those under 40 to 75. I agree that the formula for state pensions that was concocted in 1945 is no longer viable and needs reforming. With life expectancy rising we need an expectation that people will work for longer. The question though, is finding suitable employment for them. You might live longer but the human body still has frailties in the 60s and 70s that make it unsuitable for certain occupations.


Means testing the NHS would be a failure. Those rich enough are already leaving the system for private healthcare for any non-emergency care. The cost of assessing income would be so tortuous and expensive it would probably wipe out any savings.


Encouraging young, skilled migrants with job offers to come and pay taxes would be a start.


Incentives for increasing the birth rate possibly.


Or a full scale admission that the current economic model is doomed to failure. Our rapacious consumerism and desire for constant growth can no longer be sustained.

"You might live longer but the human body still has frailties in the 60s and 70s that make it unsuitable for certain occupations"


This!


I have a friend who is a female paramedic standing at about 5ft,2. She will not have the physical strength to haul people off the floor when she's pushing 70.


That's just one example among many.

Indeed, and there just isn't always an easy solution of back-office paper shuffling to fall back on. Some professions and trades are well suited to employing those in their 60s and 70s (law for example) but other much less so. If you're going to extend the pension age, and I'm relatively happy with the arguments to do so, you need to provide support for those it affects.
D_C said "Those rich enough are already leaving the system for private healthcare for any non-emergency care." They're not actually leaving the system, they're still contributing to the system and paying for private healthcare which, in an ideal world, leaves the system with the same resources but fewer drains on it..... But, sadly, this isn't an ideal world and the system continues to be at breaking point...

LadyNorwood Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> D_C said "Those rich enough are already leaving

> the system for private healthcare for any

> non-emergency care." They're not actually leaving

> the system, they're still contributing to the

> system and paying for private healthcare which, in

> an ideal world, leaves the system with the same

> resources but fewer drains on it..... But, sadly,

> this isn't an ideal world and the system continues

> to be at breaking point...


Look, I don't want to be pedantic and nor do I want this to degenerate into a debate on public v private health BUT your statement is too simplistic. They are leaving a system if they are only choosing to use it when there are no other options available (ie. emergency care) that they can pay for to receive a supposedly superior service.


Where do you think the doctors and nurses come from for those hospitals? Who paid to train them? What could they be doing if they weren't operating on deep-pocketed CEOs? Private health uses up just as many resources as it frees.

In my experience private health care is a way to speed up the torpid referral system before inevitably being treated in the doctor's NHS practice anyway. In other words you enrich a bunch of shareholders to jump the NHS queue but still use up its precious resources.

What a cad!!!

Most of the nurses I've ever come across in private hospitals are from abroad (Australian, New Zealand, Philippines, Ireland) - the majority of consultants I've seen do both NHS and private work (one NHS consultant recommended I go to see someone privately, when I asked who, he said 'well, me of course')... I did say 'in an ideal world' so please don't jump down my throat or I'll have to go and see a ENT consultant...

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


>

> Incentives for increasing the birth rate

> possibly.

>


I'm not quite sure I understand where this relates to supporting your ideas DC. How does this help anything?


If you think it would obviously help - is there such an incentive, for whatever reason, that wouldn't result in costing more money that probably wouldn't be recooped or if it did in any beneficial way?

  • 1 month later...

You need a larger young working population to support a growing elderly non-working population.


Also, LadyNorwood is right.


KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> david_carnell Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Incentives for increasing the birth rate

> > possibly.

> >

>

> I'm not quite sure I understand where this relates

> to supporting your ideas DC. How does this help

> anything?

>

> If you think it would obviously help - is there

> such an incentive, for whatever reason, that

> wouldn't result in costing more money that

> probably wouldn't be recooped or if it did in any

> beneficial way?

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The current wave of xenophobia is due to powerful/influential people stirring up hatred.  It;'s what happened in the past, think 1930s Germany.  It seems to be even easier now as so many get their information from social media, whether it is right or wrong.  The media seeking so called balance will bring some nutter on, they don't then bring a nutter on to counteract that. They now seem to turn to Reform at the first opportunity. So your life is 'shite', let;s blame someone else.  Whilst sounding a bit like a Tory, taking some ownership/personal responsibility would be a start.  There are some situations where that may be more challenging, in deindustrialised 'left behind' wasteland we can't all get on our bikes and find work.  But I loathe how it is now popular to blame those of us from relatively modest backgrounds, like me, who did see education and knowledge as a way to self improve. Now we are seen by some as smug liberals......  
    • Kwik Fit buggered up an A/C leak diagnosis for me (saying there wasn't one, when there was) and sold a regas. The vehicle had to be taken to an A/C specialist for condensor replacement and a further regas. Not impressed.
    • Yes, these are all good points. I agree with you, that division has led us down dangerous paths in the past. And I deplore any kind of racism (as I think you probably know).  But I feel that a lot of the current wave of xenophobia we're witnessing is actually more about a general malaise and discontent. I know non-white people around here who are surprisingly vocal about immigrants - legal or otherwise. I think this feeling transcends skin colour for a lot of people and isn't as simple as, say, the Jew hatred of the 1930s or the Irish and Black racism that we saw laterally. I think people feel ignored and looked down upon.  What you don't realise, Sephiroth, is that I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just think that looking down on people because of their voting history and opinions is self-defeating. And that's where Labour's getting it wrong and Reform is reaping the rewards.   
    • @Sephiroth you made some interesting points on the economy, on the Lammy thread. Thought it worth broadening the discussion. Reeves (irrespective of her financial competence) clearly was too downbeat on things when Labour came into power. But could there have been more honesty on the liklihood of taxes going up (which they have done, and will do in any case due to the freezing of personal allowances).  It may have been a silly commitment not to do this, but were you damned if you do and damned if you don't?
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...