peckham on the bbc

[KidKruger]

maybe we need to form a colony to protect these things. with Louisa as prime Minister.

Worth it - even if only to keep beefburgers below ?12 !

[jimbo1964]

Where is the fabled ?12 burger available?

[KidKruger]

(allegedly) NorthCross market.

[????]

Bloody change eh? "Same as when all the immigrants come over here ruining the neighbourhood" etc etc etc Bit like a Monty Python sketch on here, keeps me amused on a Friday tho

[markmc71]

Hi all

Just to follow up on our post the other day...

We'll be meeting local people and giving out the paper at the following railway stations over the next two weeks:

Queen's Road Peckham - Thursday 30th January - 8.30am

Peckham Rye - Friday 31st January - 8.30am

Nunhead - Thursday 6th February - 8.30am

Denmark Hill - Friday 7th February - 8.30am

We'll be giving out around 100 copies each time so we'll be there for as long as they last!

Please do have a look at the paper online if you have any spare time over the weekend - we've got some key stories on the proposed redevelopment of the area surrounding Peckham Rye station, an interview with a homeless person based in and around Nunhead and an interesting piece on Southwark Habitat for Humanity. In fact, several people have already contacted the charity to enquire about volunteering after reading our story, which is great news.

Link here:

http://issuu.com/peckhampeculiar/docs/the_peckham_peculiar_issue_1

Many thanks

Mark and all at The Peckham Peculiar

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bloody change eh? "Same as when all the

> immigrants come over here ruining the

> neighbourhood" etc etc etc Bit like a Monty Python

> sketch on here, keeps me amused on a Friday tho

I'd rather have a load of immigrants move in than a load of upper middle class (for want of a better term) people to be honest.

[????]

prejudice is prejudice...you know pre-judging and all that, no real difference than upper middle class people saying all working class people are plebs

[Otta]

Oh absolutely, and I'm not above a bit of stereotyping.

But then I don't pre judge "immigrants" because they're different to me, and I have no problem with them and largely welcome them. There are certain groups of immigrants that I prefer to others because they just seem nicer.

And I've no problem with upper middle class people because they have more money than me or anything like that. I've just met enough that I thought were horrible to colour my opinion a bit.

[Otta]

But anyway, back to Peckham...

[toffeese15]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you misunderstand me sophie_d. I wish

> markmc71 and all the co-founders/contributors to

> this paper the very best, it surely will be a

> positive step for print media and the local area....

Hahahaha! And what you actually said was:

"More arty trendy middle class stuff detached from reality. So much is happening in Peckham? Maybe if you're on the cool carriage first class from Shoreditch or Dalston, but what about the real Peckham?

Louisa."

Is the only acceptable reality a working class one? Is there not room for several different realities co-habiting? Please define the 'real Peckham' for me. Is it Del boys, Desmonds or Damilola's or could it also embrace a scotch egg at the Victoria Inn?

I've lived in this area for 17 years, so have seen plenty of changes - many, but not all, positive. I'd be interested to hear if you have witnessed any positive changes at all. Reading through your posts there seems to be an obsession with maintaining a particular incarnation of Peckham. What is this and when was it? I could be wrong, but it would appear that it's quite a narrow definition of what a 'real' place could be, but perhaps you could enlighten me further to explain what you mean.

[Otta]

toffeese15 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Is the only acceptable reality a working class

> one? Is there not room for several different

> realities co-habiting?

Ideally, yes. But the problem is that when the *"middle classes/Gentrifiers" come, prices rise, and the other realities move on because they can't afford the area anymore, and they feel less and less like they belong / are welcome.

* Middle class is such a lazy term, and I strongly believe that working class / middle class doesn't fit today's world, but it was a quick way of saying what I meant.

[Peckhamrye]

Anyway, back to the important issue at hand - a view on the proposed development for the station and a reminder that if people - including you Louisa, don't like it then SAY SOMETHING!!!!!! http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-michael-petry/peckham-in-peril_b_4643580.html

[JoeChuff]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> toffeese15 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > > Is the only acceptable reality a working

> class

> > one? Is there not room for several different

> > realities co-habiting?

>

>

> Ideally, yes. But the problem is that when the

> *"middle classes/Gentrifiers" come, prices rise,

> and the other realities move on because they can't

> afford the area anymore, and they feel less and

> less like they belong / are welcome.

>

>

> * Middle class is such a lazy term, and I strongly

> believe that working class / middle class doesn't

> fit today's world, but it was a quick way of

> saying what I meant.

i agree with what you're saying, i would just add how odd it is how people are so terrified of using the "c" word when it explains such a huge deal of what's going on... it really isn't as lazy a term as you are saying I don't think!!

[JoeChuff]

> You might be interested in the results of a paper

> by Emma Jackson at the Department of Geography,

> King's College London.

>

> Its all about comparing the 'gentrification' of

> Peckham with another broadly similar area -

> Brixton. Turns out we're a little bit

> different...

>

> Paper: Gentrification and its other: moving beyond

> social tectonics

> Emma Jackson & Tim Butler

>

> Here she is interviewed:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ljk4r

this is very much worth listening to, and I really like both Emma Jackson's and Michaela Benson's work on the middle-class influx to Peckham, but I wouldn't say that this is academic certification that Peckham blow-ins are "doing it right". But still, have a listen a judge for yourselves!

[Otta]

JoeChuff Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > toffeese15 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > > Is the only acceptable reality a working

> > class

> > > one? Is there not room for several different

> > > realities co-habiting?

> >

> >

> > Ideally, yes. But the problem is that when the

> > *"middle classes/Gentrifiers" come, prices

> rise,

> > and the other realities move on because they

> can't

> > afford the area anymore, and they feel less and

> > less like they belong / are welcome.

> >

> >

> > * Middle class is such a lazy term, and I

> strongly

> > believe that working class / middle class

> doesn't

> > fit today's world, but it was a quick way of

> > saying what I meant.

>

> i agree with what you're saying, i would just add

> how odd it is how people are so terrified of using

> the "c" word when it explains such a huge deal of

> what's going on... it really isn't as lazy a term

> as you are saying I don't think!!

I just mean that "working class" and "middle class" doesn't define the majority of people well anymore. I honestly don't know what working class is anymore, and if I'm middle class, which I am by some definition, why are my circumstances so different to other middle class people?

It's like having boxing where everyone has to be either heavyweight or lightweight.

[JoeChuff]

it's a bit more complex than it used to be, but it's still a real thing... remember that class isn't just about how you define yourself, it's about (more about, really) how others define you

the muddying of the waters you refer to is real, but it doesn't do away with the existence of class advantage - I just feel like by giving up on any idea of understanding society through the concept of class, we give up on being able to highlight and interrogate the exercise of that advantage

[????]

So why are most sociologists middle-class? Discuss

[JoeChuff]

happy to

we know how it works

we don't feel good about it

we rat our own people out

ETA:

put it this way: when we pretend class is no longer relevant, who actually benefits?

[????]

....and there we have it, Middle Class guilt, one of the most destructive forces for the working class, ever.....

[JoeChuff]

that's a fair point, i do agree

good luck

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

If you haven't made it to "Frank's Campari Bar" yet, you can see the magnificent views from the top of the car park on the tv programme "So you think you can drive" at 53 minutes in.

[vgrant]

Why oh Why oh Why do the hipster lebensraum vermin always seem to think that shakespeare done in an urban style in a brutalist environmen is the way to bring performance art to the masses and get them local onboard? Paternalistic sneering filth.

(http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/multistorey-story-shakespeare-in-the-peckham-car-park-9685677.html)

More names for the peckham rye head shot public festival. detials to follow.soon

[El Pibe]