CCTV in Marmora Road

[andypandy]

I noticed those signs today too. As Marmora Man says they are on every lamp post but only from Forest Hill Road End to Scutari Rd - the East end of the road clearly isn't under observation.... although there are CCTV cameras on one house.......doubt if Southwark put them there though....

[kford]

What are the rules regarding these infernal devices? Could I, say, pop one on the front of my house and film the street? I bet they're not regulated.

[Marmora Man]

although there are CCTV cameras on one house.......doubt if Southwark put them there though....

That's there to keep an eye on an Aston Martin DB 6!

[louisiana]

kford Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What are the rules regarding these infernal

> devices? Could I, say, pop one on the front of my

> house and film the street? I bet they're not

> regulated.

Rules and complex and hazy at the bottom end, and even the police seem to give wrong advice. Different rules for public spaces, shops/retail, monitoring of employees, private residential property etc. etc. Monitoring of your own property *only* (i.e. not straying onto public space) unregulated afaik, and even residential monitoring of adjacent public space seems hazy.

In the workplace, employers have been done for filming employees in toilet cubicles, for example, but this was under employment etc. legislation I believe, not any specific CCTV legislation. In other words, people are often reaching for other rule books (human rights? employment?), perhaps owing to lack of CCTV regulation.

Some police forces issue guidelines for residential and/or commercial users but these are not legally binding, just their proposed good practice (and are probably all different).

I've yet to see the 'inside' of a residential installation that I would regard as ethical. And it's just plain wierd that people should want to watch - on a large plasma TV in their sitting room - everything that everyone does who walks down their street does. 24/7. Instead of TV. Is this the new 'reality TV'? This is what some people do. (And then they narrowcast it....)

[kford]

It's electronic curtain-twitching.

[Marmora Man]

I've still had no joy from council officials - varied and evasive replies only. One claimed there are no cameras on Marmora Road - which raises the question of why the notices? Crime deterrent on the cheap?

Next step - use the elected councillors.

[PeckhamRose]

Get them to make it a Members Question, that kinda means big talk business...

Good luck!

[Siduhe]

I suspect the Freedom of Information Act is your friend. If you ask about the specific location of the cameras, they may properly decline to answer your question on the grounds that the answer relates to law enforcement, but I expect questions about why they have been located in Marmora Road and the intended purpose of the footage (as well as how long it will be kept), not to mention the cost, would be fair questions to ask.

Don't be put off if the first answer is "no", the ICO tends to take a much more robust line (in my experience) than local authorities will, until you complain to the ICO.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/freedom_of_information/your_right_to_know.aspx

[Marmora Man]

A response at last. IN essence there are no CCTV cameras in Marmora Road and there shouldn't be any signs about them. However, I can't make up my mind if this is deliberate obfuscation on the part of Southwark Council or simple bureaucratic cock up - probably the latter I suppose:

Please see the response below. I do hope that this response clarifies the situation. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if you feel I can assist further.

Kind regards,

Cllr Paul Kyriacou

Executive Member for Community Safety

We do not have any cameras deployed in Marmora Road and signs advertising "Covert CCTV" does seen a little strange. If covert cameras were installed then all appropriate authorisations would have been gained and legislation adhered to. Further, if we went to the effort of getting permissions for covert surveillance then it would seem odd that we would install signs advertising it.

It is possible that overt redeployable cameras were installed in the past for a specific operation. I shall visit the area to look for these signs and should they be ours, I will organise their removal.

If cameras are recording then a 'Data Subject Access Request' should be made. I have listed details of how this request can be made though as previously mentioned, we do not have any cameras deployed in this area.

If cameras are recording then a 'Data Subject Access Request' should be made. I have listed details of how this request can be made though as previously mentioned, we do not have any cameras deployed in this area.

How to Apply for Information held by the London Borough of Southwark under the Data Protection Act, 1998

Your Rights

You have a right to be told whether any images are held which identify you.

The Data Controller will only give that information if he is satisfied as to your identity. He does not have to give any information identifying someone else, unless that person agrees. If you think images may be held about you which may also identify another person, you need to obtain that persons agreement and send it with your application. If such agreement is not possible or not obtained, it may be necessary to arrange for third party images to be disguised or blurred.

Data Controllers Rights

You will not be entitled to receive information held where that information is held for:

????? The prevention or detection of crime

????? The apprehension or prosecution of offenders

????? Giving information would be likely to prejudice any of these purposes.

Note: A fee of ?10.00 is applied for this information. Cheques or Postal Orders should be made payable to London Borough of Southwark.

Proof of Identity

To help establish your identity, your application must include two official documents which between them clearly show your name, address and date of birth as well as a photograph. For example: Driving License, Medical Card, Birth Certificate, Passport etc. All original documents will be copied and returned.

Submitting the Completed Application Form

When you have completed the application form, please forward it with the appropriate documents and fee to:

Mr. I Gentry

CCTV Manager

L B Southwark

151 ? 153 Walworth Road

London SE17 1RY

[Siduhe]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A response at last. IN essence there are no CCTV

> cameras in Marmora Road and there shouldn't be any

> signs about them. However, I can't make up my mind

> if this is deliberate obfuscation on the part of

> Southwark Council or simple bureaucratic cock up -

> probably the latter I suppose:

Or some kind of prank? Modern art installation? Leftover from a reality TV show? More seriously, I wonder if someone who lives in the road might have put them up to deter fly-tipping or similar.

[Clinker]

I reckon some Resident of Marmora Road put the signs up with the hopes of trying to deter any criminal activity...

Maybe...B)

[PeckhamRose]

Has it worked?

[Marmora Man]

There's no significant criminal activity in Marmora Road that I'm aware of. Dog cr*p yes, occasional graffiti, maybe the odd keying of a smart car - but that's about it.

[Clinker]

Yeah, but since the FHT opened up, residents on that street may be getting twitchy and maybe they're taking precautions? B)

[Marmora Man]

Thanks to CCllr Paul Kyriacou, Executive Member for Community Safety, who pursued this matter for me I have received an e-mail stating that there are no CCTV cameras on Marmora Road and that the signs will be taken down.

No explanation as to how the siutaion arose though.

From: Gentry, Ian

Sent: 21 October 2008 10:49

To: Kyriacou, Paul

Cc: St Matthew-Daniel, Christine

Subject: FW: CCTV on Marmora Road

Hello Paul,

Just returned from leave and have been advised that there are no cameras belonging to Environmental Enforcement in the area. I shall now have these signs removed.

Please forward my apologies to Mr. Whitehouse for any unnecessary concern these signs may have caused.

Kind regards,

Ian

[Jimbob]

wow what a victory for civil liberty.

i,m glad it was worth it.

[PeckhamRose]

So it's back to someone from your street being mischievous with their own signage then, is it?

Good idea that, think I'll put some of my own up.

Just been for a lovely walk round Nunhead Cemetery, signs everywhere telling you what you (mostly) can not do, and a sign that needs putting up everywhere would say:

"We know there are too many signs."