defaced ukip poster

[LadyDeliah]

Which one? Farage or Salmond?

[Otta]

I was talking about Salmond, but would happily cut and paste for Farage.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Great posts EP - I think you've sewn this thread up.

[maxxi]

...and anyway - THIS is how you deface a political poster-

[LadyDeliah]

The Greens have an EU referendum during the next Parliament as part of their manifesto, by the way. They say it's about making a democratic decision although they want to stay in.

[Loz]

Has anyone actually got a link to UKIP's manifesto? (New or old) LD - where did you get your info from?

[El Pibe]

eeh gads man, this is the EDF (the nice one...most of the time) no thread is ever 'sewn up', we've yet to bring cycling into it ;)

[lozzyloz]

Why I'll be voting UKIP ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/21/ukip-twitter-trending_n_5363700.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

[Zebedee Tring]

I alluded to UKIP'sd financial agenda in an earlier post. LD's detailed account above of their policies shows how potentially dangerous they are.

[Villager]

I'm an immigrant and it may surprise some, but I will be voting for UKIP again this time.

I am fed up with the the amount of money we have to contribute to Europe - approx a net ?55 Million every day!

I also dislike the way that the European Court can over-rule the decisions of our courts.

I am fed up with the electorate being taken for mugs by the main stream political parties and how the politicians of all persuasions are out to feather their own nests. On the rare occasion when one is caught fiddling, they get put in purdah for a year or so and then they get back on to the gravy train again.

Some of our friends who dont like UKIP will vote for some fringe party or spoil their ballot papers. Most are motivated by the need to give the established career political charlatans a reality check.

[????]

an established political charalatan who fiddles his expenses....I give you.....Nigel Farage

[JohnL]

You get the feeling He's a Scottish version of the Welsh Crachach - it's one of the reasons voters will

vote to stay in the UK IMHO. Won't be given as a reason however and in Wales no-one agress on anything :).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crachach

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> El Pibe Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> and I find Salmond genuinely awful.

> >

> > But I guess that's for anoher thread.

>

>

> I probably is for another thread, but whilst we're

> here, from the first time I saw/heard him on

> telly, well before I was really interested in

> politics at all (not that I'm THAT in to it these

> days to be totally honest) I just found myself

> really really disliking the man. He just stinks of

> self interest.

[PokerTime]

Villager, you are a perfect example of the kind of sucker that UKIP seeks. There a many reasons why UKIP would be a disaster for this country, as LadyD's post above illustrates perfectly.

But just on Europe, here are some things you might want to consider.

50% of our exports go to the EU. Because membership of the EU is membership of a free market, our businesses do not have to pay tariffs, import taxes or worry about quotas. I suggest you take a look at the tariffs that non-members have to pay and consider the damage that would do to business in the UK.

That single market is a magnet for foreign investment. Millions of pounds of investment have come to the UK from large companies and service providers because of the access to that single market.

And then there is competiton law. That EU law is the reason why government departments have to put contracts out to tender.

There is something called structural funding. It is a pot of money the EU doles out to help deprived areas. Aside from the billions already given to the UK (for things like infrastructure) England will receive over ?6 billion, Wales ?2 billion, Scotland ?795 million, and Northern Ireland ?457 million over the next five years.

Workers rights are perhaps the most important thing to consider. Four weeks paid holiday a year, the 48 hour working week, anti-discrimination law, guaranteed rights for agency workers, worker consultation, all exist because of the EU. Anyone who thinks the free market economists that dominate British politics are interested in any of those kinds of workers rights is misguided.

And let's not forget that 5 million Brits live and/or work in Europe. We are free to travel too, without having to apply for visas etc.

Being part of the EU makes the fight against international crime easier too. We are benefactors of the European Arrest Warrant.

If we want the EU to work in Britain?s interests, then we need to be involved in EU decision-making. If we leave, there will be no one to stand up for our interests when decisions are made that affect us, such as changes to trade or investment laws.

There are counter arguments to some of those points, of course. But rarely (in fact never) do I see anyone voting for UKIP engage in that kind of debate. Here's a chance now though Villager, for you to have a stab at it.

[grabot]

Pokertime. Some interesting points, but was it necessary to start by insulting Villager?

It should be noted that import tariffs are something of a relic and are generally regarded as economically damaging. The EU and US are currently negotiating the removal of almost all tariffs and both parties expect substantial gains as a consequence. Why keep them at all after that point? Some might argue to keep poor countries poor. We have certainly done substantial damage to various commomwealth partners through EU membership.

[Sue]

Why is this thread not in the lounge?

Most of it has nothing to do with the defaced poster.

[Loz]

OK, so the odd UKIP person says something racist. But who could be offended at comments like:

- "Black African nurses would be unsuitable at certain hospitals as they might have never seen a white person before."

- "Illegal immigrants play 'divide and rule'. We should not play their game."

- "White mums will go to the wall for their children."

Hardly anything there to get worked up about, is there?

[charlesfare]

I can't vote this time around because of some admin stuff I didn't do in time. As a non white son of immigrants, the idea of people like Farage and the people he associates with is genuinely quite scary.

There's a chance he's not a racist or whatever, but I think parties like UKIP are a fertile ground for prejudice to thrive on. All his comments about people not speaking English on trains and not wanting to live next door to Romanians...knocking about with Nationalist types in Europe...

[PokerTime]

I take your point Grabot. It's not my style to insult and I apologise to Villager for my sarcasm, and that's a genuine apology. All viewpoints are valid in a forum, and momentarily I forgot that.

There's no right or wrong on the detail of Europe, which is why I said some of my points are open to debate (I even have informed retorts to my own points). I was just trying to illustrate how no debate of any sort has happened. The EU has become some kind of B&W issue and UKIP has been able to exploit that, on a single issue it seems. I would love to engage in a detailed debate with a UKIP supporter on the detail of europe.

[holloway]

-- moved topic --

[Administrator]

Lounged.

And don't forget to vote today everyone, you'll kick yourself if you don't and the other team wins.

[El Pibe]

oh god, i feel a fisk coming on....

>>I'm an immigrant

me too, twice over

>>I am fed up with the the amount of money we have to contribute to Europe - approx a net ?55 Million every day!

really, genuinely fed up or just repeating trite phrases from a daily mail article? we pay three times that on our interest payments alone, at least that 55 million ends up doing something.

I've been to places like Sarajevo where European money makes a difference, I've seen how European investment has transformed Spain and Ireland and the new emerging markets of eastern europe, from backward agrarian economies to dynamic (if occassionally troubled) 21st century countries who are now expanded markets for british goods.

>>I also dislike the way that the European Court can over-rule the decisions of our courts.

To be fair they're far more disposed to overturn stupid arbitrary rulings by the executive than the courts, and are often ignored any way. in fact the government often ignores rulings by our own courts, see passim over the chagos islanders for starters.

Remember for every 50 articles about 'its political correctness gone maaaad' there are ususally only one or two follow ups hidden on p94 that acknowledge that in fact it was all bollocks.

So please tell me which rulings have specifically annoyed you.

>>I am fed up with the electorate being taken for mugs by the main stream political parties and how the politicians of all persuasions are out to feather their own nests. On the rare occasion when one is caught fiddling, they get put in purdah for a year or so and then they get back on to the gravy train again.

well, as loz has pointed out, im not sure how ukip are different in this respect, but it's a democracy, just make sure you use your vote to good effect.

>>Some of our friends who dont like UKIP will vote for some fringe party or spoil their ballot papers. Most are motivated by the need to give the established career political charlatans a reality check.

none of the above will give them a reality check, voting for ukip is more like an unreality check

[Rutherford]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OK, so the odd UKIP person says something racist.

> But who could be offended at comments like:

>

> - "Black African nurses would be unsuitable at

> certain hospitals as they might have never seen a

> white person before."

>

> - "Illegal immigrants play 'divide and rule'. We

> should not play their game."

>

> - "White mums will go to the wall for their

> children."

>

> Hardly anything there to get worked up about, is

> there?

I hope your joking. That's typical of UKIP's hate language.

[Zebedee Tring]

I thought that Loz was being ironic? Was he/she?

[El Pibe]

"That's typical of UKIP's hate language"

I'm guessing that these are direct quotes attributed to ukip supporters/candidates?

[JohnL]

Someone tweeted that the purpose of democracy and voting is to get rid of people, not vote them in :)