Best Boozer in East Dulwich

[StraferJack]

I suspect the reason the castle survives is as much to do with a beneficial lease as anything else

[Otta]

Yeah probs.

Part of the reason the CPT died in the last couple of years is that the lease was up and there was no way the previous owner was gonna afford to renew. It was allowed to just rot.

[titch juicy]

Unfortunate at the Flying Pig tonight. Ordered a bottle of Rogue Porter, got it back to the table and it was past it's sell by date. Took it back to the bar and the manager apologised and reached for another, but was also out of date. She asked if she could get me another and recommended a different porter. Got that back to my table and it was a full 16 months out of date. Obviously took that back too. Didn't see any effort to take he remaining bottles from the fridge but just an excuse that we haven't checked the dates for a couple of months. So, when they were checked a couple of months ago they must've knowingly stocked the fridge with beer that was over a year past it's sell by date.

Now, I know this isn't the greatest crime in the world and possibly quite easily missed. I'll go back and give the place another chance because it's the first bad experience in there- but if the same bottles are being sold at the weekend or next week- what would be the right thing to do?

[maxxi]

Are you sure it was 'sell by' and not 'best before'? Bars don't (usually) get in beer that is anywhere close to its expiry date unless it is on (very) special offer and in that case they will be fully aware of the fact.

Have had the same thing (other side of the jump) and, as it was after the best before date, just sold it cheaply (as a past-date beer) as bottled beer can be okay for a few months afterwards - it flew out the door and no one got the trots.

Right thing to do? They should put a notice on the fridge and sell it at half price.

[Parkdrive]

Millhaven Wrote:

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> There was a pub on Meeting House Lane, Peckham

> (the road down the side of the police station)

> Havelot Arms (I think that is how it was spelt).

> Anyway, they used to have the most amazing *free*

> bar food on a Sunday. You could get every kind of

> seafood including and I kid you not, caviar and

> escargot. It was there that I first experienced

> both those particular foods. But they also did the

> traditional bar food like roast spuds and prawns

> and whelks.

>

> Also used to have a chappy touring the pubs of

> East Dulwich and Peckham selling seafood stuff

> like jellied eels (yuk!) and roll mops and what

> have you. You don't see those guys anymore.

> Another pub tradition gone by the wayside.

It was the Havelock Arms, it was on the opposite side of the road to the shop my father and I owned in the 70's and early 80's. The owner, who was had a local reputation as a bit of a villian, and his family used to shop with us and we, naturally, returned the favour. That was a proper family run boozer. There was also a pub also on the opposite corner, possibly called the Clarkson Arms, but I'm not 100% certain.

[titch juicy]

maxxi Wrote:

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> Are you sure it was 'sell by' and not 'best

> before'? Bars don't (usually) get in beer that is

> anywhere close to its expiry date unless it is on

> (very) special offer and in that case they will be

> fully aware of the fact.

>

> Have had the same thing (other side of the jump)

> and, as it was after the best before date, just

> sold it cheaply (as a past-date beer) as bottled

> beer can be okay for a few months afterwards - it

> flew out the door and no one got the trots.

>

> Right thing to do? They should put a notice on the

> fridge and sell it at half price.

You're right, it was best before. But 16 months past?

[Jeremy]

nashoi Wrote:

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> Hermits Cave doesn't serve food (though it did try

> briefly some years back), nor does Stormbird, so

> it is still possible you just need the right

> demographic

That's because drunk students don't eat food.

Millhaven Wrote:

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> Can't remember the Foresters doing grub.

Oh it did, it did. Scampi or burger with chips and a pint of fosters for ?5, I think. It were propa.

[StraferJack]

Foresters definitely did food

[Jeremy]

At least, that's what they called it.

[Millhaven]

Parkdrive Wrote:

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> It was the Havelock Arms, it was on the opposite

> side of the road to the shop my father and I owned

> in the 70's and early 80's. The owner, who was had

> a local reputation as a bit of a villian, and his

> family used to shop with us and we, naturally,

> returned the favour. That was a proper family run

> boozer. There was also a pub also on the opposite

> corner, possibly called the Clarkson Arms, but I'm

> not 100% certain.

Clarkson Arms does sound familiar. I think I went in there just the once. As a part of a visiting darts team. My recollection is that we were made so unwelcome we all departed about 15 seconds after the last dart was thrown.

Havelock Arms - was run by the mother and daughter of said villian and both were called Shirley (I think). And you are right, it was a proper family run boozer. Rarer than hen's teeth now.

[*Bob*]

Millhaven Wrote:

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> Clarkson Arms does sound familiar. I think I went

> in there just the once. As a part of a visiting

> darts team. My recollection is that we were made

> so unwelcome we all departed about 15 seconds

> after the last dart was thrown.

You forget, so many proppa 'boozers' were like this. Territorial and tribal, with a malevolent air. And people wonder why many aren't around any more.

Personality and character I'm all for, but now, seriously, who wants to pay a fiver to sit with a drink, scanning the room and wondering if you're going to get out the door alive?

[Millhaven]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> You forget, so many proppa 'boozers' were like

> this. Territorial and tribal, with a malevolent

> air. And people wonder why many aren't around any

> more.

>

> Personality and character I'm all for, but now,

> seriously, who wants to pay a fiver to sit with a

> drink, scanning the room and wondering if you're

> going to get out the door alive?

Haha! Very true. I drank in various establishments along the Old Kent Road both when they were just pubs and also during that late 80s early 90s period when the pubs had turned into mini night clubs. Horrendous atmosphere most of time and trouble was so rife The Old Kent Road was once described as "The most dangerous place in Europe". I look back on those days with some fondness but mostly I am glad they don't exist anymore.

[Parkdrive]

Millhaven Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Parkdrive Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > It was the Havelock Arms, it was on the

> opposite

> > side of the road to the shop my father and I

> owned

> > in the 70's and early 80's. The owner, who was

> had

> > a local reputation as a bit of a villian, and

> his

> > family used to shop with us and we, naturally,

> > returned the favour. That was a proper family

> run

> > boozer. There was also a pub also on the

> opposite

> > corner, possibly called the Clarkson Arms, but

> I'm

> > not 100% certain.

>

> Clarkson Arms does sound familiar. I think I went

> in there just the once. As a part of a visiting

> darts team. My recollection is that we were made

> so unwelcome we all departed about 15 seconds

> after the last dart was thrown.

> Havelock Arms - was run by the mother and daughter

> of said villian and both were called Shirley (I

> think). And you are right, it was a proper family

> run boozer. Rarer than hen's teeth now.

The ladies were both called Shirley and the owner also owned a haulage firm with a largish yard on the side of the pub which often housed a large flat back lorry. They often sent us over a couple of pints on a Saturday when we were too busy in the shop to get over there.

[maxxi]

TJ - sorry, missed that bit - yes 16 months is probably too long.

[Parkdrive]

I notice, unsurprisngly, how negative the remarks are regarding pubs in the 70's and 80's. Most of the ones I frequented were fine, they weren't swish, or elegant or poncey, just good old fashioned watering holes where you could go and enjoy a pint. This applied to pubs I visited in pubs in places like Richmond and Teddington, as well as locally. The reason for going to a pub was to meet friends and, surprisingly, have a bevvy. Most people I knew would go to a restaurant to eat, another novel concept, and not to a pub. I remember going to the Lord Nelson on the corner of the Old Kent Road in the middle 70's and feeling a bit peckish, the only thing they could offer me was cheese and onion roll, and it was like ambrosia. I also remember fondly the tendency for ladies and gents to dress up to go to these pubs on a Friday and Saturday and very good they looked too. The trend these days seems to be to dress like you've either slept in your clothes and gone out without looking in the mirror or dressing like a beneficiary of a local charity hand out.

[????]

I agree with a lot of what Parkdrive said. If anything pubs were a bit more inclusive - although there were a few which were um, 'edgy'

the other thing about many (not all) old boozers was that the demographic - class, age, race, students - tended to be far wider that todays 'niched and targeted' *puke offers. There weren't really 'old mans' pubs as many old boozers are now called. Better food service etc nowadyas admiitedly but far less diverse.

[*Bob*]

Doesn't ring true for me at all, but then I'm not from around eeeeere originally.

Pubs from what I remember were 'specifically' niche and non-inclusive. The one you didn't go in if you were over 20, the one you didn't go in if you were a student, the one you didn't go in if you were an unaccompanied female, the one you didn't go in unless you knew someone who was a regular, the one you didn't go in if you had long hair.. and the one you just didn't go in.

[Earl Aelfheah]

My experience is similar to *Bob*.

Anyway, what's the conclusion of all this. Has The Castle been voted in as 'Best (and only proper) Boozer in East Dulwich'?

[Earl Aelfheah]

They should get a Rosette

[Parkdrive]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Doesn't ring true for me at all, but then I'm not

> from around eeeeere originally.

>

> Pubs from what I remember were 'specifically'

> niche and non-inclusive. The one you didn't go in

> if you were over 20, the one you didn't go in if

> you were a student, the one you didn't go in if

> you were an unaccompanied female, the one you

> didn't go in unless you knew someone who was a

> regular, the one you didn't go in if you had long

> hair.. and the one you just didn't go in.

Where were these places you refer to, local or from where you originally come from? I don't recognise your description at all. Sounds as if you're describing a saloon from a wild west movie.

[JohnL]

They all had a bar and a lounge

You stood in the bar and it was mainly male and smoky

You sat in the lounge and it was mixed and smoky

Sometimes there was another room.

One guy had a seat which nobody else was supposed to sit in.

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree with a lot of what Parkdrive said. If

> anything pubs were a bit more inclusive - although

> there were a few which were um, 'edgy'

>

> the other thing about many (not all) old boozers

> was that the demographic - class, age, race,

> students - tended to be far wider that todays

> 'niched and targeted' *puke offers. There weren't

> really 'old mans' pubs as many old boozers are now

> called. Better food service etc nowadyas

> admiitedly but far less diverse.

[nashoi]

The country was less tolerant and more violent in the 70s and 80s, pubs just reflected that

[????]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Doesn't ring true for me at all, but then I'm not

> from around eeeeere originally.

>

> Pubs from what I remember were 'specifically'

> niche and non-inclusive. The one you didn't go in

> if you were over 20, the one you didn't go in if

> you were a student, the one you didn't go in if

> you were an unaccompanied female, the one you

> didn't go in unless you knew someone who was a

> regular, the one you didn't go in if you had long

> hair.. and the one you just didn't go in.

Where are you from *bob*? Belfast?

[Millhaven]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree with a lot of what Parkdrive said. If

> anything pubs were a bit more inclusive - although

> there were a few which were um, 'edgy'

>

> the other thing about many (not all) old boozers

> was that the demographic - class, age, race,

> students - tended to be far wider that todays

> 'niched and targeted' *puke offers. There weren't

> really 'old mans' pubs as many old boozers are now

> called. Better food service etc nowadyas

> admiitedly but far less diverse.

Aye agreed. One of my favourite locals (in the 80s/90s) The Gowlett Arms was notiorius for being very "Cliquey" Nearly every friend of mine that came to visit me there said the same thing. "Nice pub but a bit cliquey" I didn't see it because a) I was a regular and b) I worked there for a year. So I was part of the clique and it wasn't until I experienced being an outsider elsewhere that it became apparent that my friends were right. I haven't been in the G (as we liked to call it) enough lately to gauge what it is like but I imagine it isn't anywhere near as cliquey as back in my day.

Yes, the pubs were more diverse back then but even that diversity had its little groups. Especially those with two bars (i.e saloon and a public bar for any kids reading this). My experience of growing up and drinking in Peckham/East Dulwich is that the irish and west indians (middle-aged and/or older) mostly chose to drink in the public bars together. Although even that wasn't quite 'together' but in the same part of the pub. You still see this in some of the traditional/old man boozers to this very day.

[*Bob*]

Parkdrive Wrote:

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> Where were these places you refer to, local or

> from where you originally come from? I don't

> recognise your description at all. Sounds as if

> you're describing a saloon from a wild west movie.

I'm not originally from London, no.

It's my experience of the small/mid-sized-shithole-town-somewhere-in-england-you-can't-wait-to-leave scenario.