Consultation on ?improving? the junction of East Dulwich Grove, Townley Road and Green Dale

[Tessmo]

It's hard to decide whether the final design of the new junction will be better or worse for cyclists and pedestrians because the lights still aren't right, and the new cycling features are still missing. From what I've heard, this is all down to TfL. Why the delay? Isn't safety at this junction important?

[Curmudgeon]

QueenMab Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well I've been taking my son to school via that

> junction every day for the last year and a half

> and they have been there every day...!

I've been purposefully looking out for lollipop man / woman the last couple of weeks and not seen one between 3.10 and 3.20 ...just the charter students...maybe s/he comes later?

[Asset]

They start at 3.30

[Curmudgeon]

So Charter School students are not part of the requirement for lollipop on that horrible junction, because there are always Charter students there as they get out earlier

Interesting

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, that's probably because Alleyns and JAGS have junior schools. I suspect it's thought that 11-year-olds and older don't need crossing wardens. Maybe not so interesting.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think it is meant to be a primary aged service but rather up to the authority to determine need

As a parent I would imagine the need is greater for the final years of primary and the first years of secondary when children are more likely to be crossing unaccompanied

I still find this junction one of the most dangerous to cross as a pedestrian and to drive through

[intexasatthe moment]

I must say it would seem sensible ,given that there is a crossing patrol there,that the times were extended to cover Charter School times .

[Bicknell]

Just found this on Southwark's website. Three items right at the bottom

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/200431/street_improvements

[Curmudgeon]

Did I miss a comment on the appallingly tight left hand turn from townley into east dulwuch grove ...the one that has cars and coaches swinging out into the path of oncoming traffic?

Is that not an area of safety concern at all?

Edit ..oh I see it ...it is supposedly not an issue, in the right place and due to positioning of cars on approach to junction and it is all ok

In reality it is so far from being ok it is laughable

[DadOf4]

waking this thread up

I seem to remember that there were some additions to this junction for cycle safety that were to be put in once TFL granted approval.

Do I remember that right.

My view of the 200k spent on this junction: its made it a more pleasant pedestrian experience, and could have increased safety on that front (although those coaches mounting the pavement every day may counter that)

As far as cyclist safety (which was one of the big drivers and heavily debated) - nada. I still regularly see traffic turning into the path of cyclists coming from Greendale direction.

[mikeb]

Is there any indication that Aecom actually drove through the junction at all? I fail to see how anyone turning left at this junction could believe it is a well-planned turn.

Also, there is no real reason why this shouldn't be two lanes at the end, enabling cars turning right not to block the predominant flow of traffic turning left. Finally there is probably one too many crossings - the one between the junction and the zebra crossing is probably unnecessary.

Google streetview still shows this junction prior to Southwark's balls-up...

And if you go further back on Streetview, you can still see when the primary route went along Calton Avenue.

[rendelharris]

DadOf4 Wrote:

> As far as cyclist safety (which was one of the big

> drivers and heavily debated) - nada. I still

> regularly see traffic turning into the path of

> cyclists coming from Greendale direction.

I regularly cross this junction from Greendale to Townley Road and I must say the "cycle only" light on Greendale is a great help for safety, enabling me to get across the junction before the Townley Road traffic is released. The one thing I would say is that the hold isn't long enough, unless one's really on the ball, in the right gear and quite strong the right turning traffic is released before one can get across, a few more seconds' delay would make a notable difference.

[wulfhound]

Went that way this morning in the rush hour - the entire 3 seconds of cycle green light exiting Townley, there were cars turning R from EDG to Townley blocking the junction. Eight or ten cyclists with a green light and nowhere to go. Outside the rush hour it's not nearly so bad.