Consultation on ?improving? the junction of East Dulwich Grove, Townley Road and Green Dale

[Tessmo]

Sorry, edhistory, I don't know who the independent assessor is. Waiting to find out...when we finally see the interim safety audit...

[fazer71]

I heard that they're going to change Carlton avenue junction with Townley rd to make Carlton avenue priority.!

Now I know the system is bonkers.

Carlton avenue was priority until a few years back.

So they're putting it back the way it was.

Lol

We really are being ripped off by these road people.

What a way to spend our tax money.

Change it every few years from X to Y and then back to Y from X .. And keep repeating every few year.

Hysterical..

Oh and apparently a few one way roads not side roads as I suggest above. Oh nooooo ..

Main roads.

What a crock of ?hit.

[Zebedee Tring]

Where have you heard this? Perhaps you're confusing it with the proposal to give Calton Avenue priority at its junction with Court Lane. At least I hope that you are.

[slarti b]

Fazer wrote

I heard that they're going to change Carlton venue junction with Townley rd to make Carlton avenue priority.!

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

> Where have you heard this? Perhaps you're > confusing it with the proposal to give Calton

> Avenue priority at its junction with Court Lane. At least I hope that you are.

Changing priority at junction of Calton\Townley was suggested at one of the workshops. This would mean road being adjusted to follow route of Quietway and making right turn from Townley into Calton easier\safer for cyclists.

I don't think this has made it into any of the options presented so far, probably because this would make Calton more attractive to traffic. And wouldn't be needed if they close Calton.

Agree with Fazer about money wasted on undoing previous schemes. A couple of posters have mentioned the Townley junction is nicer for pedestrians. However that is largely because they have removed the cattle pens and islands put in at the last "improvement" 10 years ago! This could have been done much more cheaply and with much less disruption years ago.

And remember, that the objective of spending ?250-300k on this junction was to improve it for cyclists, which has barely happened.

[maxwelland]

I sit in traffic for 20-30 minutes trying to just get through the lights on Red Post Hill crossing East Dulwich Rd.

I'm assuming the lights sequencing has been altered to give pedestrians more time to cross, but it's causing chaos.

Does anyone have any info on what's happening here specifically and who to contact to get it sorted? Is it part of the Greendale/Townley/Carlton masterplan?

[edhistory]

holymoly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A stage 3 audit is due on works completion but

> because they are not complete, an independent

> interim report has been produced as noted above

> but it has not yet been released to Councillors.

> A Village Cllr asked Southwark two weeks ago for

> this to be sent out to residents and is chasing

> early release.

Thanks for uploading this.

In which sense is it independent?

John K

[holymoly]

maxwelland and ed-history - this may help:

Extract from email to Councillors and local residents from Southwark Public Realm Wed, 9 Sep 2015

Maxwelland: This refers to SCOOT UTC - which links the junction operation to others - I understand the ED and Red Post Hill one. This may be causing the change and you could enquire of Southwark public realm.

ed-history: I can see that the earlier email to Councillors that had the stage 1/2 audit, also had the brief for the stage 3 interim safety audit. I have been able to attach it here. It does not specify who is conducting this however and how independent of Aecom it will be or whether there is a 'chinese wall' between various divisions of Aecom (design and construction vs audit). The Stage 1/2 Audit attached earlier was conducted by Aecom as you can see.

Extract: ......................

I have this morning received further clarification on the delay to the cycle facilities from TfL.

There had previously been some confusion about whether ?low-level? cycle signals were permitted to be installed at this junction without a separate Department for Transport authorisation. TfL have now clarified that they are permitted. Please bear in mind that TfL are responsible for all traffic signals in London.

Recently, a signalised crossing with ?early release? for cyclists and low level signals has been installed at Cambridge Heath in Tower Hamlets. This is the first use in the UK and is being monitored for a period of 8 weeks (up to 13 October) by TfL. Until this trial is concluded and assessed, TfL will not install low level signals unless they are on a fully segregated track or on the same pole as a primary traffic signal whereby the move from green to amber to red and vice versa in synchronisation with the full height traffic signal above. This is the current set up at Townley Road. After the trial is concluded on 13 October, TfL need 2 weeks to analyse data collected. Assuming that the trial is favourable, this will allow the early release feature to be switched on shortly after 27 October.

No further authorisation is required to install the ?cycle gate? features although TfL are currently recommending a two-stage approach whereby the early release is turned on first and then the cycle gates are constructed and turned on at a slightly later date.

I am sorry about this delay, originally we had hoped that Townley Road would be the first site for low level early release however TfL chose Cambridge Heath, not least I suspect because this site was on their own highway network where they are in more direct control. This decision was outside of our control.

Lastly, the junction will shortly be upgraded to ?SCOOT UTC? operation. This is likely in the next few weeks although I do not have a firm date from TfL. This will improve the operation of the junction as it will be linked to other nearby junctions improving capacity and efficiency. There is a small amount of additional technical work required by TfL before this can happen.

I trust this helps explain the current issues.

----------------------

[edhistory]

Thank you again, holymoly.

This is getting confusing.

I thought that the contract was given to these people (see attchment).

John K

[holymoly]

Ed-history

there's more. In addition to the last post with the Interim Stage 3 brief doument attached. Success.

I have compressed the PDF file and the full stage 1&2 audit report is attached with this post.

So all 3 douments are visible across the thread:

1. Original report for stage 1&2

2. Southwark's response to the stage 1&2 audit

3. The brief for the interim stage 3 audit.

that is as much as I can locate across various pieces of correspondence.

[edhistory]

Ian Batcock has been certified.

[mockingbird]

Why the mention of Ian Batcock. I can't trace the influence to Townley.

[edhistory]

This Ian Badcock:

Edit.

Sorry. That should read Ian Batcock.

[mockingbird]

How has this person been involved with Townley? Or is it Aecom.

I'm confused but curious..............

[first mate]

I think he is a senior engineer involved in the various audits and whose reports have identified the same problems with all the meddling that was flagged up ages ago by resudents/objectors to the scheme.

[edhistory]

Ian Batcock is a certified SoSRA who works for AECOM Ltd.

F.M.Conway AECOM Ltd is jointly owned (50/50) by F.M.Conway Ltd and AECOM Ltd.

He has done an independent safety audit of the new works.

[mockingbird]

I understand that during the summer build at Townley, one of the workman spoke to residents about the challenges of the design and commented that some of the designers had been sacked.

Is this what you mean?

[mikeb]

It struck me on the way home tonight that perhaps we are being too negative about the 'improvements' to this junction. Much like the Dowager Duchess of Grantham, we are fearful of change and don't see the opportunities that it can present - if we are only prepared to change the way that we approach life.

To this end, I think we should celebrate the latest addition to public space, being the enormous pavement now on the south side of this junction. We could call it Townley Square, if it were square (though not that that stopped the inhabitants of Choumert Square). Maybe St Barnabas Place?

Now all we need to do is to find a use for this unexpected civic amenity that Southwark has accidentally bestowed on us. To start the ball rolling, how about

* skate park - the quality of the acres of paving really is very good and shouldn't be wasted on mere pedestrians

* bandstand - Dulwich really should have a proper one,

* Town Crier spot - maybe one of the lollypop persons could double up on this? They could read out headlines from Southwark News

* Speakers Corner - everyone from this forum gets a free try-out

* British Bulldogs court - to complement Alleyn's fives court down the road

* light aircraft landing strip - maybe start off with gliders until we've mastered the air traffic control aspects

* stocks / pillories (I'm afraid I don't know the difference) - we could move these up the road from Calton Ave so that Dulwich Estate can build its mansions in peace

* practice / display spot for that wonderful unicyclist who goes to Alleyn's

* Perhaps most likely of all, Alleyn's could annexe this for its own use, claiming some ancient title

[intexasatthe moment]

If I knew how to post a smiley face and thumbs up mikeb I would .

[DadOf4]

Was dropping the kids off at swimming last night (about 7pm) and thought I'd stand and watch how the junction "performs" in the evening.

I was horrified . Nearly every cyclist coming from Greendale towards Townley was turned across by a car (coming from Townley, turning right) Yes, this used to happen some before , but IMO, the new road markings are making this worse.

I know that there was a desire to ban the RH turn from Townley - which would fix this, but I don't think that was ever practical when all aspects were considered

At the time many said (me included) - just make it clearer that Greendale is actually a road, maybe improve lighting or re-phase the lights. None of those things have happened.

Southwark have spent 250k on making a junction:

a) much less safe for cyclists (based on my 10 minute sample)

b) that causes worse traffic congestion

c) that has buses mounting the pavements every day

what a total and utter f*&k up

[Tessmo]

@mikeb Love your post. Thank you.

At the very least, there could be a wooden bench so that we can sit and watch the coaches trying not to plough into all the waiting cyclists on East Dulwich Grove...

[fazer71]

mikeb

That post is worth ?250,000.

This joke of a fu?ing junction is worth ?2.

They would have achieved the same/better just removing the barriers.

It's broken now that's for sure !

Hey Ho at least it's creating jobs even if they add sweet FA to the locals

The contractors and their chums at tlf and Southwark council are laughing all the way to their gaffs in sunny Sutton Swanley and Sunnydale.

Whilst we struggle on as they laugh their tits off.

We're the MUGS !

[hopskip]

Mikeb

I wish this forum had a Like symbol. Most inspired post of the thread award goes to you.

I think Cllrs Williams and Merrell are lined up to present it although as you note, it will need dispensation from the Dulwich Estate.

[QueenMab]

Yep. I was nearly taken out by a coach this evening turning left out of Townley into East Dulwich Grove. I was waiting in the ADVANCE STOP BOX, waiting to go straight ahead and the coach managed to come up behind me and turn right across me. I managed to get off my bike and out of the way just in time but it was incredibly close. If the promised advanced filter cycle lights actually worked, this could never have happened. It really is only a matter of find before someone is killed or seriously injured at this junction. Why aren't the advance filter lights in operation? Who do wec need to contact to get this implemented?

[fazer71]

Contract God.

He's apparently able to perform miracles and for free.

Southwark only make things worst and charge ?250,000.

[James Barber]

The latest safety audit can be found here - 2 x files each of 4M - http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/3980/townley_road