'Fake' Vegetarians

[Millhaven]

aquarius moon wrote:

>

> Anyway this thread isn't about fake meat, it's

> about people becoming veggie and not being

> passionate enough about it to have the willpower

> to stick at it.

You are obviously passionate about vegetarianism (to a degree) but you can't expect everyone to share that. Some have a lower will power over quite a fundamental life choice.

[red devil]

aquarius moon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyway this thread isn't about fake meat, it's

> about people becoming veggie and not being

> passionate enough about it to have the willpower

> to stick at it.

That's different than calling people 'fake'. I can understand why some people have been irked by your OP...

[right-clicking]

I have been a vegetarian for 35 years, even as a kid I was always questioning my mother what I was eating, and when told Pig or Cow I really didn't get on with the idea of putting a dead animal inside my body!

As far as "Meat Substitutes" go, either Quorn or Soya based, the point is Protein and Texture! Try the Sainsburys meatless meatballs, Lovely stuff!

Vegetarianism is down to personal choice there are no rules on what constitutes a real or pretend veggie, I am labelled as a "Ova Pesca vegetarian" Meaning I still eat (oily) Fish and eggs.

I have no problems with nutrition nor health, If anything, being veggie opens up your imagination and encourages one to explore alternatives and aids to your creativity in the kitchen, If you are used slapping a chunk of meat, spuds and a few greens on a plate, try taking off the animal and then think about how to complete the meal!!

Quon bacon is smoked cardboard! Yuk!, but most of the others are great, It's not pretending to be anything other than what it is...........A replacement or stand-in for something that achieves a similar result or purpose.

[DulwichFox]

Like I said above, I was veggie for 3 years. Did not stray once.

I eat animal produce now but my concern is more about how animals are reared.

Any food produced by cruel measures such as Foie Gras is strictly off limit and I will go

to the lengths of avoiding any restaurant that serves it. IE Franklins, The French House and now Prettys.

Many animals are Predatory they eat other animals and expect to be eaten themselves.

Especially those that live in the sea.

There are those around us will feel the need to try exotic animals or animals many people

would disapprove of eating.

I do not ever feel any need or desire to eat these creatures for fun or to impress others.

If you eat animals, then you need to ensure that they have been reared in humane conditions

and not been subjected to any forms of cruelty or mistreatment.

Respect what you eat.

DulwichFox

[aquarius moon]

red devil Wrote:

-----------------------------------------------

>

> That's different than calling people 'fake'. I can

> understand why some people have been irked by your

> OP...

Well that was the most appropriate title that sprang to mind after reading the piece in the Daily Mail.

[aquarius moon]

DulwichFox Wrote:

---------------------------------------

>

> Any food produced by cruel measures such as Foie

> Gras is strictly off limit and I will go

> to the lengths of avoiding any restaurant that

> serves it. IE Franklins, The French House and now

> Prettys.

>

>

Me too. I wouldn't even set foot in such places.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

AM, genuine curiosity for me is your love of animals, and the posts you write about them. As well as the veggie stuff. I have no truck with it but am slightly surprised with your interest in horse racing and betting on them. I don't find horse racing cruel or anything but would have thought you may have not been a supporter of it.

[Alan Medic]

Are you talking to am or AM, HMB?

ETA I've never noticed am posting on the Betting Matters thread which I have but neither have I written anything about love for animals on this thread, so I'm confused.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Aq moon.

[Alan Medic]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> aquarius moon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Anyway this thread isn't about fake meat, it's

> > about people becoming veggie and not being

> > passionate enough about it to have the

> willpower

> > to stick at it.

>

> That's different than calling people 'fake'. I can

> understand why some people have been irked by your

> OP...

Perhaps 'Failed Vegetarians' would have been a fairer title. To try something good and fail is better than not trying at all.

[Alan Medic]

Help-Ma-Boab Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Aq moon.

She bets on horses......where, when?

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Mick Mac horse owning thread. Maybe Im reading it wrong. Always seems strange to me, thats all.

[red devil]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Perhaps 'Failed Vegetarians' would have been a

> fairer title. To try something good and fail is

> better than not trying at all.

'Lapsed Vegetarians' would've been kinder. And then a general open question asking people who have 'lapsed', why they did so. Surely it's better to try and understand, rather than to automatically castigate people...

[Alan Medic]

Help-Ma-Boab Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac horse owning thread. Maybe Im reading it

> wrong. Always seems strange to me, thats all.

Ah right. You're right. Hopefully you will get an answer.

[aquarius moon]

I was brought up around horses so never had a problem with racing when I was younger because I believed horses were bred for racing so it was a natural thing for them to do. I've never been a fan of jump racing & don't bet on it/watch/ or support it. I don't approve of horses being killed if they break a leg on the flat either. If I owned a racehorse & it happened to me I'd try & save it whatever the cost. Look at 'Mill Reef'.

Yes, I did once put a fiver on Silver Treasure. But only because MM suggested it could win & it's not a hurdler/chaser.

Unfortunately it didn't.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Fair dos. I just thought it odd.

[Blah Blah]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'Lapsed Vegetarians' would've been kinder. And

> then a general open question asking people who

> have 'lapsed', why they did so. Surely it's better

> to try and understand, rather than to

> automatically castigate people...

This was a point in my post. We don't have a culture that is supportive of vegetarian eating. i.e. being a vegetarian always involves paying more, going further, putting up with lack of choice in restaurants and pubs etc. That's why I think some people find it hard to continue.

Someone above claimed vegetarianism carries health risks. Well I don't see obesity, diabetes and heart disease being caused by vegetarian diet! At the end of the day it is possible to get everything you need from all diets. You just have to know enough about what you are eating and be sensible about it.

[Loz]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> I don't approve of horses being killed if they break a leg on the flat either. If I owned

> a racehorse & it happened to me I'd try & save it whatever the cost. Look at 'Mill Reef'.

It's not an issue of cost. Trying to save a horse with a broken leg would almost certainly be hopeless and cruel, however well-intentioned.

A really good article why appeared in the Guardian on this. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/sep/23/claims-five-broken-leg-horse

[DulwichFox]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Someone above claimed vegetarianism carries health

> risks. Well I don't see obesity, diabetes and

> heart disease being caused by vegetarian diet! At

> the end of the day it is possible to get

> everything you need from all diets. You just have

> to know enough about what you are eating and be

> sensible about it.

What are the potential dangers from consuming the various kinds of vegetarian and vegan diets?

Cutting out meat is not all that it takes to follow a vegetarian diet.

You need to remember that whenever you omit a food group you could potentially be missing some essential nutrients.

Like Omega-3 fatty acids..

Omega-3 fatty acids have been shown to slow the progression of atherosclerosis, reduce triglyceride levels,

act as an anti-inflammatory agent, possibly help with depression and other personality disorders, and possibly thin the blood.

Vegetarians often suffer from depression and anxiety.. possibly due to lack of Omega-3 fatty acids..

This is particularly true in Pregnant women and also during Menopause ..

Omega-3 fatty acids ease psychological distress and depressive symptoms often suffered by menopausal and perimenopausal women, according to new research.

The study presents the first evidence that omega-3 supplements are effective for treating common menopause-related mental health problems.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090128104702.htm

I'm no expert on this complex matter..

.. I know a little about this from Diabetes related depression and the benefits of Omega-3 fatty acids..

read more here: http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetarian_and_vegan_diet/page2.htm

DulwichFox

[right-clicking]

Pretty soon A lot more people will be turning to veggies, As the demand for meat increases from the developing nations, so the price will rise, Argentinians will finally be able to afford eat their corned beef! Whereas before only the wealthy west could afford it.

With the rise in cost, so the realization might dawn on the uninformed that their consumption is unsustainable, Ask yourself, How much water is need per kilo of meat?, how much feed is used from the birth of the beast to it's untimely end?

Answers! Bovine meat = 15,514 liters per kilo vs vegetables 322.

" " = 16 kilos of feed = 1 kilo of meat.

Food For Thought "It takes at least six times the amount of land to feed a meat eater than to feed a vegetarian. In the UK just 2% of the population is vegetarian, but although none of us really need to eat meat every day, most people simply aren?t prepared to give it up altogether. Having one or two meatless days a week is an easy way to make a difference, and changing to a diet containing more beans, nuts, fruit and vegetables can also improve your health and lower the risk of heart disease, diabetes and some cancers".

"16 kilos of grain is needed to produce one kilo of beef. The huge quantities used for animal feeds means that the remaining supplies of grain become too expensive for the people who depend on it to survive. About 1.2 billion people in the world suffer from hunger, while another 1.2 billion are obese".

[Otta]

Blah Blah Wrote:

----------------------------.

> Someone above claimed vegetarianism carries health

> risks. Well I don't see obesity, diabetes and

> heart disease being caused by vegetarian diet!

I don't think those things have much to do with whether you eat meat or not. More to do with how much sugar stuff you munch.

[uncleglen]

People will just carry on doing exactly what they want to do, adjusting their lifestyles according to fads or their own conscience. The fact that plastic bags are still being given out willy-nilly just goes to prove that no-one cares about non-renewable energy for a start let alone abuse of animals to satisfy our appetites.

[Blah Blah]

Yes Dulwich Fox, omega 3 is very important for all the reasons you state, but that's why flaxseed and flaxseed oil are an important part of a vegetarian diet. Other sources of Omega 3 are tofu (and soya based food), walnuts, rapeseed etc. So again, not a problem if you eat the right things.

I totally agree right-clicking, epsecially with regards the production of corn to beef. Cows of course are better fed on grass. Grass fed cows don't have ecoli in their guts, and therefore have less need for anti-biotics etc. Feeding corn to cows is just part of the process of industrialisation of meat production. And people do eat far more meat than they need to.

Uncleglen, your point highlights perfectly why change needs to come from above, from suppliers and producers. But as they are profit led, not by environment or well being, only regulation can force change. It's a brave government that takes on the might of corporations.

[RosieH]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People will just carry on doing exactly what they

> want to do, adjusting their lifestyles according

> to fads or their own conscience. The fact that

> plastic bags are still being given out willy-nilly

> just goes to prove that no-one cares about

> non-renewable energy for a start let alone abuse

> of animals to satisfy our appetites.

Meh, plastic bags are a red herring - bread and circuses. The environmental impact compared with eating meat or dairy, flying away on holiday, driving a car, keeping a pet, having babies, is really minimal.

Do committed vegatarians / vegans shun quinoa, soya or almond milk, or is it only the animals that matter and not the people or the planet?

The higher the horse, the bigger the bump when you fall on your arse.

[Jessie]

Nope, I'd say I care more about people than animals I'm afraid.