Paris shootings - several dead

[StraferJack]

Bad. very Bad

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/07/shooting-paris-satirical-magazine-charlie-hebdo

[GroveLaneMan]

Appalling and cowardly ! The victims were engaged in satire . Very sad

[StraferJack]

Some of the victims not even that I'd bet

I've seen several calls for every newspaper to print the cartoon tomorrow on the front page - here's hoping

[david_carnell]

#jesuischarlie

[El Pibe]

utterly appalling. yes every paper should do so. Purest intimidation of the worst sort. Musn't give in to it.

[ernesto]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Some of the victims not even that I'd bet

>

> I've seen several calls for every newspaper to

> print the cartoon tomorrow on the front page -

> here's hoping

This will hardly help

[Mick Mac]

In 2012, Charlie Hebdo magazine published more cartoons of the prophet Muhammad, including images of him naked, and a cover showing him being pushed along in a wheelchair by an Orthodox Jew. The French government had appealed to the editors not to go ahead with publication, and shut down embassies, cultural centres and schools in 20 countries out of fear of reprisals when they went ahead anyway.

Riot police were also deployed to the Charlie Hebdo offices to protect it from direct attacks. The foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, publicly criticised the magazine?s actions asking: ?Is it really sensible or intelligent to pour fuel on the fire??

G?rard Biard, the editor-in-chief, rejected the criticism. ?We?re a newspaper that respects French law,? he said. ?Now, if there?s a law that is different in Kabul or Riyadh, we?re not going to bother ourselves with respecting it.?

[Otta]

ernesto Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> StraferJack Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Some of the victims not even that I'd bet

> >

> > I've seen several calls for every newspaper to

> > print the cartoon tomorrow on the front page -

> > here's hoping

>

>

> This will hardly help

Agreed.

[Lowlander]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Some of the victims not even that I'd bet

>

> I've seen several calls for every newspaper to

> print the cartoon tomorrow on the front page -

> here's hoping

How will that help things? I'm all for freedom of speech and expression...but this would surely fan the flames...

[StraferJack]

You either accept that you can?t publish things because gunmen will come and blow you away or you show that you can?t be intimidated like that

It?s surely worse to back down and accept you can?t publish

[david_carnell]

Dear god?! Seriously? You don't get that response?

It says, proudly, we will not be cowed. We will not be initimated by your acts of violence. We will defeat you not by a machine gun but by freedom of speech. There are many of us. You are few. That you do not represent Islam and take your prophets name in vain when committing these acts.

If we stop publishing these things, because of "offence", because of consequences like this, terrorism wins. And we all lose.

[david_carnell]

x-post with SJ

[ernesto]

Its hardly a relevation, but if you print you have a responsibility & there can be consequences- legitimate or not

France is fairly unique in europe with its policies regarding islam and its appalling history in Muslim countries, not to mention the tinderbox of its banlieues

This is a country that has had a institutionally racist RW political structure ( dont bother stating that Islam is not a race strawman), a country that formally acknowledged the Armenian geniocide to piss off Turkey.

This is an appaling and unforgiveable act, but lets not get into a hate spiral- this wont benefit anyone

[david_carnell]

It's not a hate spiral. That would be me blowing up a mosque in revenge.

This is about basic freedoms.

[????]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Dear god?! Seriously? You don't get that

> response?

>

> It says, proudly, we will not be cowed. We will

> not be initimated by your acts of violence. We

> will defeat you not by a machine gun but by

> freedom of speech. There are many of us. You are

> few. That you do not represent Islam and take your

> prophets name in vain when committing these acts.

>

> If we stop publishing these things, because of

> "offence", because of consequences like this,

> terrorism wins. And we all lose.

It insults all Islam, even the peaceful bits - the potrayal of the prophet/god in any human form, so it's a gross insult to all muslims.

Now, it's all a load of medieval tosh IMO but that's the issue with all papers doing it

[ernesto]

What will publishing achieve ? it will not quell the flames, it will certainly not ease existing tensions

Most sensible people know that this is not represetative of islam, unfortunately, these are not the people who would react in a knee jerk fashion

[StraferJack]

Those ?consequences? would be far less likely if the gunmen knew every paper would be doing the same thing

Those ?consequences? are far more likely to be repeated if their insane demands are accepted

[ernesto]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> It's not a hate spiral. That would be me blowing

> up a mosque in revenge.

>

> This is about basic freedoms.

You think that blowing up a mosque as revenege is that unlikely ?

[StraferJack]

Sometimes it's good to be a little offended and have your beliefs challenged, quids

Even if you are a Muslim

[????]

The "consequences" are a blasphemous and deep insult against all practising muslims. Foook the terrorists.

[miga]

.

[ernesto]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Those ?consequences? would be far less likely if

> the gunmen knew every paper would be doing the

> same thing

>

> Those ?consequences? are far more likely to be

> repeated if their insane demands are accepted

SJ, you are an intelligent man. You know how these groups function and what their aim is - this isnt a new concept- the attack is an action , the resultant fallout is the aim

[StraferJack]

"blashphemy" - well if it's as serious as THAT

I still have my mum complaining Life of Brian is blasphemous

[ernesto]

miga Wrote:

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> ernesto Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > a country that formally acknowledged the

> Armenian

> > geniocide to piss off Turkey.

>

> Or, alternatively, because it actually happened.

NO one doubts that, but why would France take effectively unilateral action to formalise this act ? think of the result, not the act.

[KalamityKel]

???? Wrote:

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> The "consequences" are a blasphemous and deep

> insult against all practising muslims. Foook the

> terrorists.

exactly.

Tit for tat on something like this - provoking a dangerous response resulting in likely harm to innocent people caught in the middle - sends out all the wrong kind of messages IMO