Most expensive pint ever?

[rodneybewes]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I like the Rake, but currently drinking more

> frequently in the Old Red Cow in Smithfield, which

> has a great selection of cask and keg, and is the

> closest pub to work that's not a City hell-hole.

> I still have a psychological block about paying

> more than a fiver a pint (or at least much more

> than a fiver), and most of the really expensive

> stuff is way over strength IPA which I don't like

> anyway.

Not a bad boozer that, with a good range of beers, but it's a bit antiseptic. The Hand & Shears around the corner has better ambience but not as big a selection.

[malumbu]

Hand and Shears is a great pub, apart from the beer which is not great. Shame.

With all the talk about the Rake you have two terrific ale houses near by, the Market Porter, which has loads of (non craft) ales on, and difficult to get in as it is so popular. And the Royal Oak in Borough, probably the only decent Harveys in London, and prices always fully displayed.

A walk over to Charing Cross, and whilst the Harp will never be the same since Fullers took it on, it will still be ok. Funnily enough the Old Mitre has improved since Fullers took it off the evil Greene King

Finally the Salisbury is worth visiting, particularly for its Gin Palace glitz.

I've mentioned a number of pubs, all with proper beer off the pump, and I doubt if any of them will charge much over ?4 a pint.

Just come back from the best pub in the world, the Blythe, where not only was the beer good but so was the craic.

I think I have been to about half of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_award-winning_pubs_in_London

Not included is the club of the year, the Leyton Orient FC club http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/9016414.LEYTON___Special__Orient_supporters_club_wins_best_ale/

[rodneybewes]

+1 for the Royal Oak, I think it's the only Harveys pub in London. Last time I was there a coach-load of staff from the brewery turned up with their MD, all of them leathered. The MD bought beers for all and everyone was having a whale of a time. Lovely pint of best.

[BrandNewGuy]

Love the Royal Oak. They have great home-cooked food too. Fond memories of a very long office Xmas lunch there and an evening involving the landlady of another SE1 boozer joining the landlord on a table, belting out "Suspicious Minds"...

[miga]

.

[DulwichFox]

Remember back in the nineties when beer brewed by small, independent brewers was called microbrew?

In the US 'Micro Brewery become a legal term governed by its size and output.

There are arguments as to whether the term Craft Beer is also a legal term ??

My view is that the term may be being used 'loosely' in certain circles to justify paying

the prices that are being asked and that in many cases it's a load of 'hype'.

Many people seem to be sold by fancy labels just as any other commodity.

Who Knows ? Who really cares ?

Just one of many opinions on What is Craft beer.

http://beer.about.com/od/beertastinganddrinking/f/What-Is-Craft-Beer.htm

DulwichFox

[Otta]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My view is that the term may be being used

> 'loosely' in certain circles to justify paying

> the prices that are being asked and that in many

> cases it's a load of 'hype'.

I think there is at least some truth to that.

[Jeremy]

miga - it's probably not entirely accurate, but generally "craft beer" tends to be influenced by US style beers, and comes in keg (chilled/carbonated) as opposed to cask, so the nerdy CAMRA types look down on it. There is quite a lot of overlap though... some craft-style breweries offer their beers in cask, while some traditional breweries (eg Fullers) have beers influenced by the American craft style.

To say that it is expensive is only partially true, some of the more common brands are widely available in supermarkets and carry a relatively small premium above bog standard beers.

According to the article SJ posted a while back, it tends to be expensive in pubs because of a combination of:

- Small production volumes

- Keg beer being intrinsically more expensive than cask

- Keg beer prices are inflated in pubs to subsidise the real ale, to keep the old boys happy

[StraferJack]

"to subsidise the real ale, to keep the old boys happy"

Heheh

Sadly I?m actually becoming old so this pertains to me

But interestingly, when I started down the ?path away from lager? a year and a bit ago, I would say I was very similar to Jeremy in terms of which beers we would go for ? keg, pale ale/golden ales

I thought I could go for the cask stuff but couldn?t take to it

But a further year down the road and it?s rare for me to buy a keg beer ? pretty much cask all the way, including dark beers

One reason is where I live being so much more geared to ales (all the lagers are available too ? but the cask isn?t limited to the same few brands I see in most London pubs) but that 3 quid something pricepoint? That?s definitely a big plus

And now if I have to have a lager (say in a curry house) I?m kind of... resigned...

[Jeremy]

Well, we are all becoming old.

Probably faced with an old-school choice between lager and cask ale, I'd go for an ale every time. I just find a keg pale ale more refreshing. Can totally understand people thinking it's the emporers new clothes... but they're wrong (although the term "craft beer" is hardly going to last forever)

[StraferJack]

When "craft beer" started appearing in a few outlets you knew what to expect - a small selection of specially chosen and interesting small scale beer

Nowadays you have every mainstream place trumpeting "craft beer" on stencils in the window and it amounting to not much more than bottles of Brooklyn Lager (which is more than acceptable btw)

Some places do it better than others ('Spoons do a good job here I think)and hopefully soon the phrase will go away and we will be left with a world where going for a beer just means assuming we have a better range than we did 10 years ago

[miga]

.

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But interestingly, wpertaiarted down the ?path

> away from lager? a year and a bit ago,

So out of interest, why did you start on this path?

I'm starting to feel like a complete neanderthal for wearing t shirts and liking lager.

[Jeremy]

I still like lager (at least the nice ones), but I think one of the reasons the craft beer thing has taken off is because it offers much more flavoursome beer, which is still approachable for lager drinkers.

If you're already hard-wired to prefer flat lukewarm ale, then nobody's expceting you to change your mind!

[StraferJack]

"So out of interest, why did you start on this path? "

I started drinking lager when I was young, in a country that had no ?ale? presence at all (at all)

By the time I came to England that taste was embedded and ale drinkers seemed fuddy duddy

But over the years as I got more interested in food I was aware that whilst I liked different foods and cuisines, and got into wines and then whiskeys, all of these beers that had seemed to occupy a similar space were ?off limits? to my closed mind, i would try one occasionally but just go ?urgh?

In the end I just got bored of lager ? really really bored. And more friends were drinking ales ? people I trusted. Then places started selling the beers that Jeremy talks of ? plenty of pale ales targeting the ?bored with lager? crowd and then I moved into a proper ales town and it was one thing after another

Works out much cheaper in the pub ? less cheaper in the offy ? you don?t get those 6 cans of Red Stripe for a fiver deals on ales

[Otta]

I just had too many lukewarm and really unpleasant ales to ever want to risk it unless I'm out with someone who knows their stuff. Otherwise it's Heineken for me.

[StraferJack]

I was the same. I don't know what exactly got me over the "hump" but nothing tastes like that to me now. I know it did then so I'm not disagreeing with you.

But Im definitely glad i did get here

[Earl Aelfheah]

I like the occasional lager (ice cold on a hot day - perfect), but love the variety of craft and real ales. It's just good to have so much genuine variety. Most of the mass market largers just taste the same - pretty fizzy and bland.

[DaveR]

"I like the occasional lager (ice cold on a hot day - perfect), but love the variety of craft and real ales. It's just good to have so much genuine variety. Most of the mass market largers just taste the same - pretty fizzy and bland."

I'm with this, pretty much word for word. As a teenager always drank ale (although then we called it bitter) because it was good beer and everybody did. Came to London and almost cried at how terrible the beer was everywhere, and started drinking Guinness. The last five years or so have been great for proper beer, and I like going to places like the Rake and trying weird and wonderful stuff, but I'm essentially happiest with a decent pint of bitter. Although, having said that, I am getting mildly addicted to London Porter (esp from Redemption Brewery) and German dark wheat beer - all those years drinking Guinness I expect.

[????]

When I started drinking in pubs the majority of beer sales were bitter and my dad/uncles etc all drank bitter and expected me to, so initially i did. But London pubs especially, but many elsehwere too, got worse and worse at looking after their ales and the rise of more premium (ie stronger so don't tastse as pissy) lagers in the 80s got me drinking lagers for years - and a bit of Guiness in irish pubs (propa ones not TipseyMcChains)- the only time i drank bitter then was in proper country pubs or if someone knew the ale was kept properly. The revival of decent tasting and kept ales has got me drinking ales anytime I go out nowadays, I only drink lager when there's no alternative (curry house say). I do like craft beer too on the whole, but mainly in bottles. I am pleased about the craft beer thing though as it's been a gateway for non-ale drinkers to start drinking ale (SJ for eg) and thus increased demand and hence quality of Real Ale in London. The biggest problem with Real Ale is as a live product it only keeps for about 3 days, so when the volume wasn't their it went off in many pubs which led people to think it tastes horrible and also led them to think that was what Real Ale tasted like. I still look at a pub for 'feel' before I order an ale though.

[????]

PS when I do drink lager on draft nowadays I'm amazed at what a gassy generally crap product it is to be honest

PPS I still wear T-shirts and don't play Toad in the Hole

[BrandNewGuy]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, we are all becoming old.

>

> Probably faced with an old-school choice between

> lager and cask ale, I'd go for an ale every time.

> I just find a keg pale ale more refreshing.

Agreed. The highly hopped and strong American IPAs need both some chilling and carbonation to cut through the inevitable heaviness of an ale that's 7%, say. I've tasted cask ales that attempt these strengths and characters - and they're way too sweet/full, despite the hoppiness.

[StraferJack]

I generally won't go above 5.9% at most for any drink... Those stupidly strong APA's... I'll try them but I'm not paying the money to feel REALLY bad the next day

[StraferJack]

this site worth checking out - depends on how on the ball the individuals pubs are in updating it but this pub is always up to date

http://www.perfectpint.co.uk/pubs/the-gardeners-arms-lewes

[Jeremy]

TBH anything over 6% is best drunk in halves. Slowly. But a very strong IPA can be very enjoyable in moderation... as can Belgian dubbels..