Embassies now owe ?26m on Congestion Charge!!!

[Brendan]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> . As a

> group, motorists are very much of the adolescent,

> aggressive teenager mentality

You see it is comments like that which immediately discredit your point because it shows that you are just buying into one or the other of the ?sides? to a debate which is pointlessly polarised by a plethora of peoples' baggage, prejudices and hang-ups.

At the risk of sounding like a flyer in a chiropractor?s waiting room, an open-minded and holistic approach would be more helpful.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Busted

Fair point Brendan - I should have been more specific about some motorist's groups.

..........But you know what I mean...

[Huguenot]

It's so difficult to be open minded with people who put their own selfish rights to trash the planet ahead of our children's rights to a reasonable life, so they can drive 800 yards to the newsagent.

I get so pissed of with these intellectual midgets screeching my rights my car my rights my rights.

Can they not see how bloody selfish and bloody rude they are?

[Ted Max]

I'm a bit disappointed in the French, to be honest. ?1.5 million behind the Germans is just lazy. Solid effort from the Poles, though. They're a decent bet for the play off places these days.

[northlondoner]

Huguenot, stick to de-caff! As an intellectual midget, I would merely argue that public transport is not always the best option for everyone. Taking two buses, burdened with three bags of shopping a stroller and a toddler may not suit everyone. Their choice to take the car should not be diminished - no matter how cross it makes intellectual giants.

Jeremy + TLS: I'm not aware of any studies showing the stats on car ownership amongst the poor and the journeys they choose to make. Am I wrong?

Ted Max:I am shocked at the appalling showing by the Italians. Where are they?

Moos: Yes, I'm a bloke. You were obviously picking up on my sensitive feminine side

[Asset]

I just read in an online article about Boris's fabulous idea to install a countdown system on the greenman at pedestrian crossings, reducing the time to cross by about 6 seconds - that he plans to halve the congestion charging zone next year. Is that the scrapping of the western extension or is he in fact reducing it from the original? Anyone know? What a twit he is.

[Ted Max]

northlondoner, good point about our Roman brethren. It seems to me the Italians might have paid a little visit to the person that compiled the list, if you know what I'm saying.

[Huguenot]

northlondoner, shop closer to home, share looking after the kids with friends and neighbours, respect the fact that your laziness is reaping a cost that you are not prepared to pay, but your kids will have to. Look at them, and put the car keys back in the drawer.

Besides, your with your increased social links you'll be happier and healthier.

We're in a pre-credit-crunch boom time ecologically speaking. We're squandering assets and stealing against future losses.

Project all the disquiet that is been addressed at the government for not managing the financial markets into a world ten years hence on environmental issues. You know why they couldn't stop that, and they can't stop this. You won't let them. You're delirious, drunk on ecological expenditure, crazed with delusions of wealth and power, and you don't care.

I can only assume that you don't have the imagination to recognise the inevitable consequences of your selfish rampages. That's why I question your powers of reasoning.

I too am disappointed with the Italians.

[SeanMacGabhann]

What, NorthLondoner, everyone gets a reply but me???

You are of course correct that public transport is not the best option for everyone. But you would be wrong to say that congestion is caused by people who need to travel because they have a toddler, a stroller and bags of shopping (or equivalent).

Nor is their choice in anyway diminished - they chose the stroller/car/children/shopping combo - they can afford the couple of quid extra. their choice WILL be diminished when every other person makes the same choice and gridlocks the road. Explain that concept to the kids now snarling in the back of the car

Nor do you need studies - hop on a bus before 7am in the moning and check out the exonomic wealth

[mockney piers]

Surely the Italians all get to their embassy in chic vespas, wearing those open faced helmets, manbags flapping in the breeze, which are congestion charge free (despite much evidence that they* produce up to 4 times the emissions of your average family hatchback)

*Mopeds, not manbags.

[Jeremy]

I think Huguenot's views are somewhat extreme - most people wouldn't blame someone for using a car if it's significantly more convenient for a particular journey. There needs to be some emphasis on the government to improve public transport, not just penalising motorists.

But I don't accept that that's the case with a journey into the west end, unless you're picking up a large/heavy item or something. I don't see that it's so hard to take a pram and a couple of bags of shopping on the train.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> northlondoner, shop closer to home, share looking

> after the kids with friends and neighbours,

> respect the fact that your laziness is reaping a

> cost that you are not prepared to pay, but your

> kids will have to. Look at them, and put the car

> keys back in the drawer.

>

> Besides, your with your increased social links

> you'll be happier and healthier.

>

> We're in a pre-credit-crunch boom time

> ecologically speaking. We're squandering assets

> and stealing against future losses.

>

> Project all the disquiet that is been addressed at

> the government for not managing the financial

> markets into a world ten years hence on

> environmental issues. You know why they couldn't

> stop that, and they can't stop this. You won't let

> them. You're delirious, drunk on ecological

> expenditure, crazed with delusions of wealth and

> power, and you don't care.

>

> I can only assume that you don't have the

> imagination to recognise the inevitable

> consequences of your selfish rampages. That's why

> I question your powers of reasoning.

>

> I too am disappointed with the Italians.

Go get them Mr Hugs!

[northlondoner]

Dear old Hueguenot! Ok you win. Just outline the location of the Permitted Retail Zone, and I will happily comply with all future shopping directives. Also,to cut down on unathorised travel, please outline the location of any putative Permitted Friendship Zone you may be thinking of. I confess to having friends and relatives over a subversively wide area - and need the discipline of making new friends in the PFZ. .Thankfully I don;t have to travel with toddlers - though I appreciate the plight of those who do. It's called empathy.

SMG: Fair point about travelling to the West End. But the Congestion zone extends way beyond the west end. And anyone wishing to traverse the the capital ( pending authorisation from H!) often has to cross through the zone - or take a massive detour. That affects the social links H refers to. Not a big deal perhaps, but worth bearing in mind.

Right, I'm off to fire up the Hummer! Pip pip!

[Huguenot]

;-)

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Some questions:

Is an intellectual pygmy superior intellectually to an intellectual midget?

Where would an intellectual goblin or elf come in any pecking order?

Do they all dwarf intellectually in comparison with, er, intellectual dwarfs and final question:

How come, INVARIABLY, nae, INEVITABLY, Guys who consider themselves intellectually "superior" have all the common sense of an average Japanese Swallowtail Butterfly and have more variations than Paganini ever devised in talking complete and utter bollox in the way their ideas would impact on the daily lifestyle of most everyday common or garden punters?...

[Huguenot]

Sorry, what.. what.. is there someone there?

*Looks around but not down*

;-)

[????]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Hey northlondoner... what exactly does the

> congestion charge stop you from doing? Why can't

> you take public transport into central London like

> most other people? Surely you can tell that the

> roads weren't designed for huge numbers of

> vehicles, and that there's not much space for

> parking.

>

> Tony.London Suburbs - not sure how it affects the

> poor the most. They can't be that poor if they own

> a car (which is a luxury in London, not a

> necessity) and can afford petrol!

A private car is in reality a luxury everywhere surely?.... to live in a place without public transport is after all just a selfish choice.

I also presume you don't have babies/small children as though life without a car with babies in London is possible it's pretty grim.....they are not great on public tranport

Tony'y right on one level, for the wealthy the congestion charge has been a benefit of being relatively low but encouraging many plebs off the road

For what it is worth, I'm broadly in favour of it

[bawdy-nan]

life without a car plus babies in london is perfectly possible and much much nicer. I've done both and was delighted to get rid of the car:

a) children win a family without a car walk much more and are less moany about walking than the chauffered variety

b) travelling on public transport with children is fine. They're much better on a bus with your full attention than strapped in the back of a car - also if you travel in the "freedom pass" time its quite sociable - chidlren and the oldsters seem to get on like a house on fire in the bus.

c) You don't need to shop in one go - why go to the supermarket with children if you can help it - they all deliver now in any case

d) as a last resort you can always take a cab / use a streetcar if you really really need to and I find I hardly ever do.

[INDOMIE]

Why cant boris just clamp the offical cars and tow them away - i'm sure that's how everyone else get's treated!!!

By the way just seen this http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5699 and wondered what exactly is the congestion charge spent on at the moment -- surely we should all be told that?

[????]

3 months and 2 year olds are indeed great walkers Bawdy-nun...especially when it's raining. The buses in rush hour are always welcoming of prams too..mmmm yes indeed..and have you actually ever checked out how many tube stations have lifts to help prams....bully for you and your patronising "the oldsters" crap...sounds like a load of bull to me,unless you just stay at home with your darlings and never venture out .....do you also hire a car seat for the taxis you use or just keep a few around the hosue for cabs...or are you, infact, talking about children and not babies?

[Jeremy]

???? Wrote:

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> A private car is in reality a luxury everywhere

> surely?.... to live in a place without public

> transport is after all just a selfish choice.

Not sure why you're being sarcastic here, I did specify that it's a luxury in London, of course there are plenty of places where public transport is not a viable option.

Don't confuse my views with those of some others, who believe that all motorists are selfish, etc. I do own a car... I just use it occasionally, and when necessary. The fact is that the roads in central London cannot support a large volume of traffic, so it's just not a suitable place to go for a shopping trip in the car. Therefore the congestion charge makes sense to me. Personally if I had kids and wanted/needed to take them shopping with me, and public transport wasn't an option for whatever reason, I would probably choose to go somewhere out of town.

[bawdy-nan]

I've done it with a 3 month old and a two year old using a combination of carrier and buggy or buggy and walking for tbd two year old. they do walk especially if you don't have a car. that was kind of my point. you're right oldsters isn't the correct term but I'm not sure what is. youngsters seems an ok term to use ...

in the rain I used a buggy cover and waterproofs - the rain can be fun.

I certainly avoided rush hour - but I still do and cycle instead for as much of my commute as I can.

I didn't stay at home with my kids - especially when they were babies - babies in a sling are easily portable - and, yes, they are darlings, thank you.

I do have car seats that I use when I get a streetcar and the knights of the road (Addison lee) have them as standard.

I seem to have made you very cross indeed but you really don't need a car in London.

(edited for dreadful one fat finger iPhone typos)

[citizenED]

If you ever do a spot of traffic watching, look out for the single male drivers. Count them and be shocked. Most of these guys could be on the bus. Basically we have got it the wrong way round regarding travel in the capital and elsewhere: on the bus and the train should be healthy single people: in the car should be families with young children, the infirm, disabled etc. ie those whose need to go door-to-door is greatest. The powers that be should incentivise the systems to allow such a change.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

citizenED Wrote:

If you ever do a spot of traffic watching, look out for the single male drivers. Count them and be shocked. Most of these guys could be on the bus.

There was a feature on TV today about how sexy Male Drivers were.

On this particular show the Women were unanimous that Guys in the right car were...yeah! "shallow"...anywayz...

Maybe over the last 35 years as am Adult Single Male I have been out with the wrong "several hundred" Women but the thought of taking 99% of them out for the evening/day by Public Transport is soooo ludicrous to not even be funny.

Ladies tend to like a little comfort sometimes, and so do many Guys.

If anyone thinks that 80% of Young Single Males are not going to want their own wheels, then they are sooo far removed from reality (even in London with its superior Public Transport)....

"'ere Tracy/Wilhelmina/Gertrude/Jade, fancy a night out?

.Meet you at The Bus Stop at 9.00 pm.."

ABSOLUTELY PREPOSTEROUS!!....(Clue: There would not be many second dates...)

[woofmarkthedog]

Really