What Time Does It All Kick-Off Tomorrow Guys?

[SeanMacGabhann]

snorky has been reading the original I Am Legend again...

[Mick Mac]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is so much we do need to invest in, getting

> education right, pumping money into the

> universities, into the sciences, into research,

> into new technologies and the clean energy

> industry of which we could become world leaders,

> not to mention propping up our crumbling

> infrastructure

But where is all this money going to come from MP? I agree we need to invest in education etc.

There are a number of financial institutions that cannot survive without the banks, the one I work in for example, without available lending companies and industries go bust and jobs are lost hence less tax is taken and less money is available to invest the way you suggest.

Gordon Brown knows he is fighting for this country's long term future at the moment, and while everyone should have a voice it is the risk takers that have driven London to past successes.

Yes they took disproportionate risks but the overly prudent voices should not dictate how to deal with this crisis.

Brendan - no the banks won't move to Guernsey but foreign investment could go elsewhere.

[mockney piers]

The money's not exactly coming from the banks now is it.

The City contributed some ?72 billion in Corporation tax since 1997, not even a drop in the ocean for the bail out let alone increased dole payments etc.

Clearly if we can chuck billions into banks then the money is available, though with failing Bond sales the preposterous 'quantitive easing' it may be too late to find significant further funds.

I'm not some rabid anti banker here, I worked in the city for many years in risk management (thus have seen first hand how little attention was actually paid to risk, and when positions were too extreme the central banks were often lied to, Iv'e seen this with my own eyes).

I understand why we have banks, but I think tighter regulation and much closer inspection is vital for the future success of the city,

You seem to think this was a hiccough, some minor blip, and people who don't 'understand' the city should butt out. But this was endemic practice across the city and that can never be allowed to bring down genuine people with real jobs (sorry mate, but 75% of what the city does is fantasy la la land) again.

*edited for erroneous decimal point

[mockney piers]

Of course we could just tacitly allow and become world leaders (like we're not already) in money laundering and reap the rewards for all those drugs we buy and guns we sell, that'll make a mint.

[MrBen]

Behind a line of 10 policeman prtecting Cornhill a group of about 30 guys in black suits, hoods and masks gather (are these the Anarchists?). Out of the blue they charge the police, break through their lines and have just steamed past us. I've ducked up an alleyway. About 5 arrested the rest have ran down alleyways to regroup. Nobody hurt (yet). Its only 12.50pm....I bump into a lawyer mate in a suit with his 35m Canon wound his neck - boundaries are a bit blurred here as usual... but it's the police getting grief.

I wanted to witness this. But heading back now. At a gym on threadneedle a crowd has gathered to watch the TV pictures beamed onto sky from events happening just 100 yards away

[mockney piers]

on a lighter note

[Siduhe]

General protestor tactics seem to be to create an air of confusion and/or get max publicity. Just walked past someone who was shouting she'd been teargassed (with a crowd of journalists round her). Er, no love - although someone has set off a (red) smoke can at the edges of one of the groups near the Bank of England...

[Mick Mac]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The money's not exactly coming from the banks now

> is it.

> The City contributed some ?7.2 billion in

> Corporation tax since 1997, not even a drop in the

> ocean for the bail out let alone increased dole

> payments etc.

>

> Clearly if we can chuck billions into banks then

> the money is available, though with failing Bond

> sales the preposterous 'quantitive easing' it may

> be too late to find significant further funds.

>

> I'm not some rabid anti banker here, I worked in

> the city for many years in risk management (thus

> have seen first hand how little attention was

> actually paid to risk, and when positions were too

> extreme the central banks were often lied to, Iv'e

> seen this with my own eyes).

>

> I understand why we have banks, but I think

> tighter regulation and much closer inspection is

> vital for the future success of the city,

>

> You seem to think this was a hiccough, some minor

> blip, and people who don't 'understand' the city

> should butt out. But this was endemic practice

> across the city and that can never be allowed to

> bring down genuine people with real jobs (sorry

> mate, but 75% of what the city does is fantasy la

> la land) again.

MP - I could not agree more with your points and have learned something from them. Its interesting to hear from someone who worked on risk.

However I don't think its a minor blip at all.

For example, our firm has a lot of companies who have breached covenants at the moment and if the banks don't play ball these companies will go to the wall and there will be lots of job losses so the banks are the priority.

I don't expect anyone to butt out either, I just felt this thread was mostly in favour of the protestors' points of view, I wanted to make the point that the success of the banks is critical to the success of the country and hopefully the people in power can deal with it in time, before there are more extensive job losses either locally or nationally.

[mockney piers]

Apologies then, I misinterpreted. Plus I get all ranty sometimes :-/

[Brendan]

I don?t think the issue is Banks vs Protesters. Apart from in the minds of a few nut jobs, the popular media and everyone who can?t think for themselves. (So admitted a majority of the population then)

I see it as trying to get the government to take this opportunity to set up a proper framework in which the industry will be run in future.

You say, ?the success of the banks is critical to the success of the country?. This is very true of the uk?s current situation and precisely why they have to be held to account by the government and instructed on how to proceed.

We are talking about institutions that are run singularly on the basis of making profit for shareholders and the damaged caused be dammed. If they are so integral to the success of the nation/world surely they need to be kept in check by those who (supposedly) represent the people.

[MrBen]

A few more mini riots now on Threadneedle but best of all is the Climate Camp outside my office on Bishopsgate. Hundreds of tents planted and its very peaceful as everyone is stoned and the police have other things to worry about than class C possession. If this was Glastonbury then Bishopsgate is now the Green Fields.

[Asset]

up to class B again MrBen, they didn't want to confuse us with having it at C so they're confusing us by changing it all the time.

sorry - back to protest topic

[Mick Mac]

Its started - Sky News

Bank of England - "Anger at bankers role in economic downturn"

[mockney piers]

Sky News in prescient reporters shock

What, Where, When: G20 Protest

Wed 1100: Protesters gathered at four London stations and head to the Bank of England.

1230: Campaigners converge on the European Climate Exchange for a flashmob-style camp.

1330: Stop the War Coalition and others hold an antiwar march.

Thu AM: Protesters bang on doors of G20 delegates hotels, then head to the London Stock Exchange for a giant game of Monopoly.

0900: Youth protesters head from South London to the summit.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I haven't looked at Sky News website for a looong time - jaysus it's shite!

You can practically hear the editor screaming "get me a picture of some twat with his head cracked open or you're all fired!!!"

[LegalEagle-ish]

The beeb brought the 1 O'Clock news on at 10 to 1 because it all started kicking off so I missed the live action - so I'm going to have to rely on Sh!t Sky News to see what actually happened.

[Jeremy]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wanted to make the

> point that the success of the banks is critical to

> the success of the country and hopefully the

> people in power can deal with it in time

I agree with this... the financial industry has provided our country with a good income over the years, and I'm sure it will do again. Yes we need to invest in education, renewable energy, medical research, and many other things, but the money needs to come from somewhere. If we're left with a country with a weak economy, we won't be in a position to spend money on any of these things.

The equation of corporation tax minus bailout money is misleading for many reasons. It ignores income tax paid by employees, and the fact that it provides employment to hundereds of thousands of people. It ignores the fact that government money wasn't charity... they've taken lots of equity in return.

[*Bob*]

The Beeb One O' Clock reported was keen to stress that argey-bargey is localised and sporadic, with most of the protesters peaceful.

Beeb 24 Hour Rolling is showing clips of minor scuffles on loop.

Hurrah for double standards in reporting.

[Jeremy]

Lots of protestors seem to be focussing their aggression on a branch of RBS. A *branch*!! Not the big office up near Liverpool Street, where the decisions are made and the investment banking takes place, but a retail branch! The word "Thieves" has been painted on the wall, along with the "Anarchy" symbol, shortly before breaking the windows.

What a bunch of morons.

[MrBen]

Who needs Sky or the beeb when you have the EDF and your "man on the ground" Mr Ben?

Tenners now waved out of windows - the old 1999 joke - and not clever nor funny.

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

Don't the protesters basically own RBS? They may as well be breaking their own windows.

[mockney piers]

I've never disputed the fact that banking system needs to be saved, but when chucking good money at often literally bad (buying up toxic debts etc) is the long term strategy, not a short term goal, then we have a government devoid of ideas, and doubtless one who will listen to the arguments of light regulation lest we strangle the baby at rebirth.

If that's the case we'll have lost a real opportunity to protect the country from the future mismanagement of greedy directors and shareholders the next time the good times roll and we banish boom and bust *hacking cough emerges*

Plus getting the city back to a speculation footing isn't sensible; structured products need to be there to raise capital, and share burden, not simply to feed a fantasy of banished risk. That way lies the fantasy land that got us into this mess.

You might as well say that the 17th century saw a lost opportunity to prop up the tulip industry.

[MrBen]

Where are The Wombles? They have been very quiet so far...

[DaveR]

"the future mismanagement of greedy directors and shareholders"

Which is all of us - if you have a pension, savings, or any kind of stake at all in any financial product. The Finkelstein article from the Times (which you found it so easy to rubbish) pointed out the absence of a viable alternative to market economics, and I still haven't heard any suggestions. I haven't heard anybody arguing against better regulation, but its such a lazy assumption that you can wave a magic wand and come up with a system for allocating resources that operates fairly, democratically and without being driven by profit.

[Mick Mac]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wanted to make the

> point that the success of the banks is critical to

> the success of the country and hopefully the

> people in power can deal with it in time

I agree with this... the financial industry has provided our country with a good income over the years, and I'm sure it will do again. Yes we need to invest in education, renewable energy, medical research, and many other things, but the money needs to come from somewhere. If we're left with a country with a weak economy, we won't be in a position to spend money on any of these things.

Thanks Jeremy - I was beginning to feel very alone.