Elephant and Castle Regeneration

[PeckhamRose]

What do we think.

Not that it will make a difference, they're going ahead with President Clinton loving it.

But what do WE think.

I went to the Building Design place on Store Street off Tottenham Court Road, and saw the plans there.

It all looks very positive and modern and gleaming and of course, "green". I wonder if President Clinton has actually seen it as it was?

I saw a map on one site where the traffic coming up Walworth Road will have to do a right at Heygate Street and hang a left at the top joining everything else from New Kent Road, because the roundabout it would normally head for will be pedestrianised at that point.

More information.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Can our Family have My Great Aunt's 5 Houses back please, that she received a pittance for, in Faraday Street/Westmoreland Road to build The Aylesbury Estate?

Thanks for destroying the Walworth Community back in The 1960's with The Heygate/Aylesbury Developments, by the way...bustards....

It was the "largest Estate in Europe" at the time, don't you know?

Something to be proud of, for sure and the Architects were even far-sighted enough to provide dark walkways and hidden gangways for, er, gangs, to operate and they did, they most certainly did....bustards, as I said....

[Sandperson]

What did she need five houses for TLS?

[Ted Max]

When the estates went up, Tony, was there not a sense of progress and a strong desire to live there amongst the locals? I know in other areas this was the case. Interior bathrooms, separate bedrooms, all that sort of thing, perceived at the time as a vast improvement on the exiting conditions.

Any insights?

[PeckhamRose]

Looks like SOuthwark Council made a massive architectural error in those days.

My ex boyfriend's Mum lived in Portland Street in a back to back which was torn down also.

BUT we have to look forward and you never know, they may not just get it right with these plans and high rises, but it could be a world leading architectural centre of excellence. (Which means everyone will learn from the mistakes THEY make!)

I'm cautiously optimistic, I think. Long as we can still get to the bridges without being squeezed in to one lane to do so.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Sandperson Wrote:

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> What did she need five houses for TLS?

One for her. One for her Son. One for her Daughter. One for her Husband ( they never did get on) and most importantly, by some considerable distance, one for me when I became older so that I would not be saddled with the ruddy mortgage I've had for 26 years now..B)...

The back of our Garden backed onto the back of my Aunts and everybody knew and helped and looked out for each other in those tight Terraced Houses

Twas a great community spirit but the planners soon put an end to that nonsense and most Walworthians moved out to Welling, Sidcup and Bexley.

p.s. When I said "everybody" used to help etc that did not apply to Bobby Holland who used to go round murdering people but apart from one or two bad eggs....

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Will the architect fall on his sword this time as well?

[Brendan]

Are they actually going to build some houses or is it just going to be flats again?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> When the estates went up, Tony, was there not a

> sense of progress and a strong desire to live

> there amongst the locals? I know in other areas

> this was the case. Interior bathrooms, separate

> bedrooms, all that sort of thing, perceived at the

> time as a vast improvement on the exiting

> conditions.

This started the mass exodus to The Kent Suburbs Ted.

The thought and prospect of living in Tower Blocks, surrounded on all sides, by other Tower Blocks was, understandably, unappealing to many.

Of course, you are correct in saying that there was certainly, interior improvements, like Indoor Loos, for example, and many gave it a go.

To be absolutely fair to the designers and architects there was very little street robbery in those days ( I truly don't remember any incident at all) and so they were not to know that things were going to drastically change, for the worse, in that respect and, of course, it became a Muggers Paradise..........got to the stage where My Aunt was on the 12th Floor and hardly ever went out for fear of using the lifts. She was physically capable for those Tower Blocks became "prisons" for many living above, say, the 3rd Floor.

The Women, in particular, did their business, and they were, effectively, housebound for the rest of the dasy, especially, as the lifts often did not work or were full of urine...I often walked up and down the 12 Floors rather than "take a chance"..

Of course, with the subsequent explosion of crime this accelerated the flight of many of the remaining characters there, to safer pastures..

[Ted Max]

One of the things the planners didn't realise was the importance of "the street". By having the humans up in the sky, and the cars all down at ground level, they were trying to create an improved environment for both. But they ended denying people the interaction they were trying to create - the sheer daily "how do you do" of buying a paper, walking to the bus stop etc. The sort of social breakdown you describe has too many causes to lay at this one door, but it's an acknowledged factor.

What I was trying to get at was if the planners' post-war enthusiasm, naivety, patrician scheming (call it what you will) was shared in any sense by the residents at the time. You suggest not - which is a big lesson for the current plans. (Southwark claims it has 75% resident apporval for its schemes, I think).

[Atila Reincarnate]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can our Family have My Great Aunt's 5 Houses back

> please, that she received a pittance for, in

> Faraday Street/Westmoreland Road to build The

> Aylesbury Estate?

>

> Thanks for destroying the Walworth Community back

> in The 1960's with The Heygate/Aylesbury

> Developments, by the way...bustards....

>

> It was the "largest Estate in Europe" at the time,

> don't you know?

>

> Something to be proud of, for sure and the

> Architects were even far-sighted enough to provide

> dark walkways and hidden gangways for, er, gangs,

> to operate and they did, they most certainly

> did....bustards, as I said....

I lived in a block of flats called Innis House in East Street and watched those old hoses being demolished to make way for the abomination that is the Aylesbury estate. It ripped the community apart.

[PeckhamRose]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Will the architect fall on his sword this time as

> well?

1) Are you saying there's knife crime in Walworth?

2) And no, not this time, because this time it is not one architect to blame. It is all Committees nowadays, and as mentioned above the Council has made sure that The People are Consulted so it's their fault.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Atila Reincarnate Wrote:

I lived in a block of flats called Innis House in East Street and watched those old hoses being demolished to make way for the abomination that is the Aylesbury estate. It ripped the community apart.

Just saw your reference to East Street on another thread M8.

You are ONE MILLION PER CENT right by the way....

p.s There was something so magical about that area that, almost everybody, that you bump into has very fond memories.

How is this for a contrast?

I was going back today, if the weather was fine, for my monthly sentimental journey ( 26 years after moving out):)) but as its windy I will drive 25 minutes the other way to High Elms Country Park and Golf Course, Nr Farnborough, with its rolling hills, woods and fields and my 4 West Highland Terriers will love it. ( I only discovered this fabulous place yesterday .

Bit different to The Lane, though:)

[PeckhamRose]

Anyway, to be fair Southwark is revamping Elephant and Castle and to get back to topic, what do we think of the new plans?

[Brendan]

Flatten it all and build a suburb of 3-4 bedroom houses that gives people the chance to live with some form a human dignity. To hell with business opportunities.

Get someone from 100 years ago to design it because for some reason ever since the 1st world war there hasn?t been an architect capable of designing anything that looks good for longer than about a month.

[Jeremy]

I think the new regeneration looks OK. I've been keeping an eye on it for a while now.

I have a feeling that some of the changes may restrict traffic flow, but other than that I think the area will become a lot more pleasant (let's face it, it can't really get much worse).