Refurb of the Castle on Crystal Palace Road

[gerald wellington]

I guess there's a debate to be had about whether it is a good or bad thing that old pubs in the area get done up, and by who, whether they are gastro, exclude previous locals, etc. etc. But for time being, does anyone know what is going to emerge from the shattered, lager-sodden wreckage that is the Castle, now closed and full of workmen? A nice new "proper" pub would be good news for those of us in this area.

[Louisa]

It would be a real shame if the Castle went the way of all the other local pubs. many of the locals (including the lovely Mary) were almost part of the furniture in there and I for one would be very sad to see these old faces made to feel isolated due to some sort of gentrification style refit.

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Panic ye not

Previous thread suggests just a lick of paint

[HonaloochieB]

Full of workmen, is it? Situation normal then.

[gerald wellington]

I just stopped by on my way to pick up my daughter and had a chat with some of the locals (one bar is open). They all seemed worried that it would change a lot, but apparently it hasn't actually changed hands. A lick of paint would certainly do it no harm.

[SCSB79]

It'll need more than a lick of paint come 1500 on Sunday.

>:D<

[James]

Oh my gawd, why would anyone want to preserve this eyesore and general chav haven? Bring on the chandeliers and flock wallpaper I say

[jimbo1964]

Have never set foot in The Castle.. I might go on Sunday to watch the match.

[SeanMacGabhann]

how very open-minded of you James

[prettyflowers]

I overheard some men (possibly an owner) saying that the men's toilets would be a lot bigger. I don't think thats a helpful comment to anyone but I thought I'd add it anyhow.

[Jeremy]

James, I think you're wrong. I know I've not always been all-out supportive of this place, but the building itself is nice - certainly not an eyesore. And I'm sure a lick of paint will make a big difference.

You're not the only one who wouldn't necessarily choose to socialise with some of the regulars, but at the end of the day there's obviously a market for a traditional pub - these guys are locals too!

[jimmy two times]

The Castle represents blue collar East Dulwich.

[Mikecg]

What a load of old bollocks.

[jimmy two times]

I must confess that's a strange response. Am I correct in stating that most patrons of the Castle are blue collar and East Dulwich residents?

[Mikecg]

I never go to a pub and decipher who is a blue collar worker and who is not it's a bit too shallow.

[Louisa]

The sort of comment about "chav" and "blue collar" is exactly the reason people like me always raise the issue of class on this forum. This really is the only traditional pub left now, and it does have a market amongst older regulars so why cant we just accept that?

Louisa.

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

I'm a recent convert to the Castle and have designated it as my British and Irish Lions pub. It could do with a slight spruce up though. Anyone who argues that it isn't "blue collar" hasn't been in there with their eyes open. Referring to something as blue collar isn't an insult.

[Horsebox]

Louisa, what's wrong with using the term 'blue collar'?

The majority of the punters in The Castle are manual workers, builders and other tradesmen etc

I agree that James's use of the word chav is offensive bollocks and out of line (but not that surprising given his penchant for flock wallpaper and chandeliers).

[jimmy two times]

Actually Mike I'd describe observing people in a pub and wondering about their occupations 'inquisitive' rather then 'shallow'.

[Mikecg]

Fair enough Jimmy, I'm usually too pissed to notice.

[Brendan]

The internal fittings of all types of establishments need replacing from time to time. Unless of course they are very good quality and very well looked after. When they are replaced they are generally done in the fashion of the day. The current fashion in London seems to be this chandelier and stupid flocking wallpaper business. Personally I?m not a fan but in the long run, meh.

What has happened though, holding testament to the general fuckwittery of humanity, is that people have started to see places having general renovations as a sort of ethnic cleansing/gentrification process.

Bollocks, bollocks, cock, dross and drivel.

If I were a regular at the castle I would be justifiably worried that just because it?s been painted some sport-jacketed twit will burst in on a Saturday afternoon and ask loudly to see the wine list. No one needs to see that sort of thing.

[gerald wellington]

Brendan -- I disagree. Gentrification is generally exactly what is going on around here when pubs are refurbished. Ethnic cleansing it might not be, but exclusion of certain types it most definitely is. I used to hate the plough and was happy when it was refurbed, but my next door neighbour who used to go there a lot was made to feel very unwelcome by the new owners. The mag I used to like but its the same story -- for want of a better way of putting it working class e dulwich people are now not really looked after there. I hope the same doesn't happen with the castle.

[Jeremy]

Hi Gerald, going from the info in this thread, that's definitely not what's going to happen here.

[James]

The trouble with this argument about gentrification ruining places is the inherent hypocrisy of it all. If you don't like ED smartening up why not move to Penge or North Peckham instead?

Besides which, this patronising view of the working classes all sticking together and enjoying their spit & sawdust pubs is a total myth. As soon as they can afford it they're off like a shot to the nearest mock tudor mansion in Bromley or Basildon.

[Ted Max]

I know. The tasteless little oiks.