Is there a God?

[El Pibe]

This is all well trodden stuff.

I think what J and H are getting at, is what's the point in that supposition if you subtract the moral wranglings.

It makes no difference to your life to believe or not to believe does it.

Maybe it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside or something but without an accompanying moral framework or posthumous benefit then really, what's the difference?

[Loz]

Marmora Man Wrote:

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> Marmite - now that's something this atheist can get to adore and even worship.

Wait until my missionaries pop 'round and convert you to the One True Way that is Vegemite...

[Jeremy]

-Heinz- Wrote:

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> I think the wonder is a very valid reason to

> suppose the existence of an all pervasive clever order.

Maybe, if you're the kind of person that wants immediate closure. You can just answer all those questions by simply saying "god did it". Seems like rather simplistic thinking to me, but each to their own.

[-Heinz-]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I think it's difficult to have a serious

> conversation about God if you're defining it

> however you want to define it.

Men have been defining God or Gods in whatever way they wished ever since metaphysics, and one could also argue that among believers of the same faith each and every member of that faith has a slightly or very different understanding of this indeed rather large concept.

I was only trying to reply to the question posted as : "Is there a God" understood as, the belief in the existence of God...Not it motives.

>

> Gods have always been moral arbiters and the

> personification of supernatural or poorly

> understood events.

More accurately Gods have been used by man to justify their moral precepts.

>

> You can't suddenly announce that your definition

> doesn't include morality or human characteristics

> and expect people to understand you.

>

Sorry if you don't...

[-Heinz-]

Jeremy Wrote:

>

> Maybe, if you're the kind of person that wants

> immediate closure. You can just answer all those

> questions by simply saying "god did it". Seems

> like rather simplistic thinking to me, but each to

> their own.

I don't pretend to know any of the answers to "all those questions" (whatever they may be) you are referring to.

[El Pibe]

This is about the 100th time someone has tried to make the distinction between a belief in god and in religion and about the 100th time I've asked 'what's the point of the former without the latter' and I've yet to have a single answer.

Not a single satisfactory answer, but a single answer.

And once again ignored.

Please....anyone....bueller....

[-Heinz-]

E.P,

Maybe you could start a thread asking how belief in God structures behaviour... be prepared to unleash a river or

prejudice, some baring commendable traits of behaviour...some maybe not so much. Certainly quite entertaining/interesting.

Good luck.

[El Pibe]

Or maybe someone could answer a simple question?

[????]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> This is about the 100th time someone has tried to

> make the distinction between a belief in god and

> in religion and about the 100th time I've asked

> 'what's the point of the former without the

> latter' and I've yet to have a single answer.

>

> Not a single satisfactory answer, but a single

> answer.

>

> And once again ignored.

>

> Please....anyone....bueller....

dunno but you could make a case that the former is based solely on s personal/belief/experience/dogma and the latter is a man made construct

[????]

...and many people are happier with what they believe without a shared and thus compromised set of beliefs/'rules'/rituals etc

[????]

..anyway, my favourite god is the "Superior Being" in the Time Bandits

[El Pibe]

"dunno but you could make a case that the former is based solely on s personal/belief/experience/dogma and the latter is a man made construct"

well obviously they're both man made constructs, i think the difference in your examples is one is a personal viewpoint and the other is esentially someone else's.

And yes I get your point, but you seem to be missing mine.

A number of times people have said that belief in a creator, intelligence whatever, doesn't necessarily have to pertain to a 'set of beliefs/'rules'/rituals'.

That's fine if that's what you want to proclaim, but it's really no different to saying 'I believe in ghosts' or 'i believe in Martians' is it? The point is, whilst trying to sound profound, actually basically meaningless.

[El Pibe]

"..anyway, my favourite god is the "Superior Being" in the Time Bandits"

I reckon you could be right, least favourite would have to go to Alanis Morisette's in Dogma.

[Ridgley]

Everyone worship some sort of god yes I do believe in a spiritual being, those that say there is no god is strictly not true as they are worship the god of the mobile phone the god of shopping the god of money.

[LondonMix]

Are you saying that a belief without the confines and rules of religion has no impact one?s life and is therefore meaningless? Or are you saying religion and a looser set of beliefs are equally meaningless?

El Pibe Wrote:

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> "dunno but you could make a case that the former

> is based solely on s

> personal/belief/experience/dogma and the latter is

> a man made construct"

>

> well obviously they're both man made constructs, i

> think the difference in your examples is one is a

> personal viewpoint and the other is esentially

> someone else's.

>

> And yes I get your point, but you seem to be

> missing mine.

>

> A number of times people have said that belief in

> a creator, intelligence whatever, doesn't

> necessarily have to pertain to a 'set of

> beliefs/'rules'/rituals'.

>

> That's fine if that's what you want to proclaim,

> but it's really no different to saying 'I believe

> in ghosts' or 'i believe in Martians' is it? The

> point is, whilst trying to sound profound,

> actually basically meaningless.

[uncleglen]

Vegemite is vile- Marmite is fab especially since it is a by-product of brewing and that is the true pathway to 'god'

[El Pibe]

The first, although I might rephrase that to say "a belief without the confines and rules by which we define 'religion'", is effectively meaningless.

That's not to say it has no effect, that warm fuzzy feeling may be beneficial in the same way that, let's say ooooh, homeopathy can be beneficial.

I'm just saying that if that belief doesn't define for you a mroal structure or ultimate destiny (good or bad) then it's not worth arguing the toss over.

Buddha came to pretty much that conclusion, he finished up saying that religion was hokum and you're better of trying to achieve enlightenment for it's own end, that being inner peace.

[El Pibe]

and in the great -mite schism I have to stick with the old religion I'm afraid, marmite all the way (cue joke about motorways)

[LondonMix]

Ah I see. Most of the people I know that believe in God without religion do feel it affects the way they live their lives and their perspective on the world. Some believe inherit spirituality is the basis of human altruism and empathy. Any other world view would just be too nihilistic for them.

I hate marmite but that?s just my belief

[El Pibe]

I have to admit, if there is a creator I'm more inclined to think it'll be more lovecraftian than a fount of altruism.

Something beyond comprehension that the merest hint of which would drive man to madness and despair.

A force for whom we are mere atoms, no more or less significant than ants or sand on a beach or the convection currents in the methane seas of a distant moon or a star crashing into a black hole.

The universe is either chaotic and indifferent or has a very black sense of humour, but I see no evidence of a source of love and goodness. But that's me, all nihilistic and hopeless, it's the marmite that does it.

[nashoi]

Humility maybe one answer to your question, though personally I think humility before your fellow man might be preferable to humility before an absentee creator.

I think you need to embrace the warm fuzzy feeling though, whether it's a simple belief or something like the optimism bias surely we all need a bit of irrationality in our lives just to get through the day.

[Lizzym]

Guys, there is a god. I pray to him continuously.

Knock and the door will be opened

[KidKruger]

'fraid not.

[El Pibe]

"Guys, there is a god. I pray to him continuously."

Perfect example of begging the question, I'll remember that next time I need to explain the term.

[civilservant]

Didn't Pascal say pretty much the same thing? Out of the mouths of...