Stabbing at Kingsdale School

[richard tudor]

Otta Wrote:

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> Stuff like this has always gone on. It happened

> when I was at school and it happened before I was

> at school.

When I was at school it was head, feet and fists. No one had to resort to a knife.

One on one. How things have changed

[Otta]

And HOPEFULLY this won't end up as a murder!

Any news on the boy who was critical?

[Otta]

richard tudor Wrote:

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> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Stuff like this has always gone on. It happened

> > when I was at school and it happened before I

> was

> > at school.

>

>

> When I was at school it was head, feet and fists.

> No one had to resort to a knife.

>

> One on one. How things have changed

Nonsense. Young men and teenaged boys have been stabbing each other for longer than any of us have been alive. It's rare, and in most cases disagreements are sorted without weapons, but all this "in my day we fought wit' our fists" is just rose tinted nostalgia.

[richard tudor]

At 69 I cannot remember people getting knifed at school or even outside school.

Perhaps I was lucky going to the old William Penn. Even growing up in "Sarf London" knifings were very rare. However that has changed.

[Jeremy]

I went to school in the suburbs - although not really a "nice" area. Plenty of vicious fights (including a few hospitalisations) but stabbing was unheard of. It would have sent shockwaves through the whole town.

[Otta]

My cousin was saying yesterday that he remembers several incidents at William Penn, but he's early 50s, so a bit after you.

This (from 2008) is quite interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7502180.stm

[Otta]

I think what is super rare is for a stabbing to actually happen IN school.

[red devil]

Knives have been around yonks, pen knives, flick knives, Stanley, Swiss Army, but I'm struggling to remember an incident of them actually being used when I was at school in the 70's/80's. They were carried more as a badge of honour. Nowadays it does seem they are more readily used, but maybe that's down to these events being highlighted on social media/internet...

[Otta]

Yeah I was thinking that last night. Everything is reported these days. All parents were sent a text, whereas a few years back some probably wouldn't have even heard for a day or two.

And unless a victim died, the news probably wouldn't have reported it. I was saying to a former teacher of mine on FB earlier that I remember an incident in my school where a kid went for a teacher with a pair of scissors. Hardly anything was made of it, and he was back in lessons the next day (possibly even later that same day). Whereas now I think it would be a pretty big deal. Not sure what the rights and wrongs of that are, just an observation.

[Penguin68]

When I was a child in the 1950s it was quite common for pre-teens to carry knives - penknives and even sheath knives (indeed I think these formed part of the scout uniform) - teenagers however tended not to (expensive swiss army knives for status notwithstanding). Testosterone fueled adolescent aggression of course existed, but fists, knees and boots tended to be the weapons of choice. I fear that much injury now caused by teens fighting with knives in school is probably, at least in part, broadly unintentional, with threatening and bravado ending in injury more because the teens don't actually know how to knife-fight than because they do. Kids now carry knives because other kids carry knives, but have no control or ability if ever they think they have to use them.

Teenage aggression is absolutely marked throughout history - and there is a long history of real violence ending in real deaths in London dating back to medieval times and before. Look up apprentice riots.

[Take Note]

Agree with Jeremy and Richard Tudor - I went to school in Forest Hill, then Catford. Plenty of fights, but Not stabbings.

[Jeremy]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> ... ending in injury more

> because the teens don't actually know how to

> knife-fight than because they do. Kids now carry

> knives because other kids carry knives, but have

> no control or ability if ever they think they have

> to use them.

While I agree that knives are probably often pulled out as a threat with no real intent to use, at the same time I'm not convinced that stabbing someone requires skill. We are not talking about ritualistic "kinfe fights" here.

[Penguin68]

at the same time I'm not convinced that stabbing someone requires skill. We are not talking about ritualistic "kinfe fights" here.

My point was that NOT stabbing people (i.e. being in proper control of your weapon) is what requires skill. And not being stabbed requires skill as well (such as not running into a blade).

[Otta]

I suspect that in some cases, once the knife is pulled, a kid feels he has to go through with using it for fear of losing face and getting "disrespected".

[Earl Aelfheah]

I don't believe for a second that stuff like this can only happen in London and it's not helpful to suggest that lot's of kids are carrying knives or that this is somehow routine. As already said, the perception that knives and stabbings are common place has the potential of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Thankfully, such events are extremely rare.

Hope the kids are OK.

[DadOf4]

Its obvously concerning and schools should have a 100% zero tolorence of weapons (or violence generally)

But, calm down dears:

In the 5 years, I was a school (1980's) in a small country town at a reasonable state school, we had 3 knife incodents and a shooting (ok - it was only a 2.2 air rifle). The difference: there was no hysteria inducing media coverage and people wanting to build bomb-proof shelters for their kids. I, myself, got hauled in front of the headmaster for throwing bangers (the REALLY big ones that I'd got on the french exchange trip) - I think that earnt me a detention and a letter to my parents.

Last night I had my mother on the phone asking if little DadOf4 was OK - she'd heard about this in Radio 5 !

My point: lets keep this in perspective. Isolated incident in a really good school. Yes, shocking due to its proximity to us, but isolated all the same

no, I'm not condoning (or saying we should be tolerant of) in any way before people start

[Otta]

They are very rare. Not the norm at all.

I just don't like comments (not so much here, but lots on social media) suggesting that all of a sudden London has gone to the dogs, and it never used to be like this. These things have always been rare, but they've always happened. There is no big sudden change.

[Otta]

Cross posted with DadOf4, but basically, what he said.

[Bic Basher]

News report on BBC London at lunchtime.

https://youtu.be/6bmV6mWi0a4

[uncleglen]

How predictable- I see the new MP has taken the opportunity to slag off the government over the reduction in police. Less police on the streets = more stabbings in the playground. With that kind of logic who needs Jeremy Corbyn....I thought Tessa Jowell was deluded but.....

[Blah Blah]

But there is a case to be made about the loss of Safer Neighbourhood Teams. They have been very sucessful in community policing, part of which is engaging with youngsters and deterring knife crime. I think she is right to criticise. Less Police is going to mean more crime. That is common sense.

The child that committed the crime had been excluded from school (according to reports). A community neighbourhood team would have been made aware of that, making engagement possible if he was seen out and about. That engagement may have prevented this crime.

The same can be said for Southwarks warden scheme. Cuts mean less of these people.

[Bic Basher]

ITV took a more negative stance on this incident.

https://youtu.be/rffPS_ItRzA

[tomskip]

ITV always take a negative stance, but then you can't really put a positive spin on this incident.

[Bic Basher]

tomskip Wrote:

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> ITV always take a negative stance, but then you

> can't really put a positive spin on this incident.

The BBC report at least tried to support the school with the statement from the head and the interviews with parents also showed the school in a positive light.

ITV on the other hand are too busy scare-mongering when parents and pupils need to feel reassured that the school is safe. Journalism at it's worst tonight.

[tomskip]

Honestly, don't watch ITV!