Vaping adverts

[TheArtfulDogger]

I have seen a number of Vaping Adverts on television , on buses and other places and it has made me curious over why a product that contains nicotine, an addictive product, does not conform to the same advertising rules that tobacco companies have to follow.

Admittedly its marginally safer than tobacco based smoking, however it's long term effects and risks haven't been established scientifically yet.

Is it right that we should expose young people to the temptation via advertising rather than trying to steer them away from seeing smoking (in any format) as cool ?

[Loz]

I suspect it is because cigarettes are known to harm health, whereas no conclusion on e-cigs have been found yet. It's not the nicotine in ciggies that causes the harm, it's all the other crap in them.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Nicotine is still a highly addictive substance though, plus they have all sorts of other additives and are completely unregulated. Let's face it, they're unlikely to be good for you. I'm amazed at how they're being marketed as 'cool'. There are vape cafes springing up now and they're being marketed quite independently of being just a cigarette replacement. The almost inevitable future 'scandal' isn't hard to see coming IMO.

[Earl Aelfheah]

This is an interesting discussion on 'vaping': http://www.bu.edu/research/articles/behind-the-vapor/

[Lowlander]

Nicotine on its own is not necessarily addictive or even harmful.

Cigarettes deliver nicotine to the body in a very effective way (via the lining of the lungs) which makes them addictive - they're the crack cocaine of the tobacco world.

It's the inhaling of smoke which is harmful, and tobacco is just a vegetable. You'd get the same risks if you inhaled smouldering pear-tree leaves.

That aside, the studies I've seen show that over 99% of vapers are ex-cigarette smokers (i.e. less than 1% start because of advertising).

That 1% outweighs the potential benefits of getting smokers to switch to vaping (although vaping is not risk-free, but that's nothing to do with the nicotine but with the additional chemicals...)

[TheArtfulDogger]

Hi lowlander, interestingly if you read the discussion by rahrahrah in the post above yours this is evidence that non smokers are taking up Vaping at a rate higher than your post suggests. Maybe you should post a link to the studies you have seen so people can see both sides of the argument?

The issue is should the adverts be allowed especially as they make out it is cool or an advance in technology (although how they can compare Vaping to artificial hands is beyond me....) rather than is it better than smoking a cigarette

[Lowlander]

Here you go - stats from ASH

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_891.pdf

[Earl Aelfheah]

@lowlander - Nicotine on it's own is not addictive? I think you're mistaken about this.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I just looked at that link. ASH claim that use of e-cigs amongst 'never smokers' is 'negligible'. They citation on this simply says "Calculations are by ASH. This was done by applying the proportions of e-cigarette use by smoking status in the 2014 YouGov survey to the most recent available ONS mid-year GB population estimates (2012)". This seems rather vague and I certainly don't see how you get your 1% figure from this.

I imagine however, that the overall numbers are relatively small. That said, I would not be surprised given the way these things are being marketed, if we saw the number of people taking up 'vaping' who have never smoked previously, increasing as time goes on. Which is kind of the point re the inappropriateness of the marketing.

[TheArtfulDogger]

From the same site have a look at the increasing awareness by 11 to 18 year olds

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_959.pdf

[Lowlander]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> @lowlander - Nicotine on it's own is not

> addictive? I think you're mistaken about this.

Not at all - read this.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicotine-all-bad/

There are many people who use nicotine (vapers/pipe/cigar/snuff) who aren't addicted.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So a quick Google, threw up this: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review

Seems to back up the view that 'vaping' is relatively benign, so perhaps I'm wrong on this.

Can't help feeling however, that there is a future scandal waiting to break here. Whilst vaping may be better for you than smoking cigarettes (and that's not really a high bar), I still think that such an addictive product should be more cautiously marketed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lowlander Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > @lowlander - Nicotine on it's own is not

> > addictive? I think you're mistaken about this.

>

> Not at all - read this.

>

> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicot

> ine-all-bad/

>

> There are many people who use nicotine

> (vapers/pipe/cigar/snuff) who aren't addicted.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. Nicotine clearly is an extremely addictive substance and there is plenty of evidence for this. The fact that many e-cigarette manufacturers have been pushing the idea that it's not, is another reason to be wary about this new industry.

Here's what the NHS says on it: http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2278.aspx?CategoryID=53

[Lowlander]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lowlander Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > rahrahrah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > @lowlander - Nicotine on it's own is not

> > > addictive? I think you're mistaken about

> this.

> >

> > Not at all - read this.

> >

> >

> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicot

>

> > ine-all-bad/

> >

> > There are many people who use nicotine

> > (vapers/pipe/cigar/snuff) who aren't addicted.

>

> I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. Nicotine

> clearly is an extremely addictive substance and

> there is plenty of evidence for this. The fact

> that many e-cigarette manufacturers have been

> pushing the idea that it's not, is another reason

> to be wary about this new industry.

>

> Here's what the NHS says on it:

> http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2278.aspx?CategoryID=5

I don't disagree. The way cigarettes deliver nicotine is extremely addictive.

But there are many people (well, ~2% of the population) who take snuff or smoke cigars (without inhaling) who don't show signs of addiction.

It's like comparing crack cocaine and tea made from cocoa leaves.

I'll concede, nicotine can be addictive, especially when delivered by cigarettes.

But the article I liked to shows that we need a more educated debate rather than singling out nicotine as the bogeyman.

[uncleglen]

This link explains the effect of nicotine itself.

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksJBlood.html

[Seabag]

They are the sexiest/cheesiest smoking ad's made for a very long time

Those and any 'gaming' gambling ad's, both of which have addiction issues surrounding them

[Lowlander]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> This link explains the effect of nicotine itself.

>

> http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksJBlood.html

No, that link shows the effect of smoking on the body. The effect of nicotine itself is far less clear-cut.

[Saffron]

Nicotine is pharmacologically considered a drug with high addiction potential. Its effect is receptor-mediated, and the mechanism is well characterised.

The fact that not everyone who smokes becomes addicted is not the definition of addiction. Addiction is relevant not only to dose but to length of exposure (and route of exposure). Also not everyone who smokes crack becomes addicted, but some people are clearly addicted to tea as noted by the physiological withdrawal syndrome.

I agree we need to move away from 'demonising' addiction, as suggested in the SA piece. However, that is a shift in cultural values, and not a statement of the biochemical potential for addiction. The mechanisms for nicotine addiction at the cellular level demonstrate addiction quite clearly both in vitro and in vivo.

I object to the high profile campaigns glamorising the use of e cigarettes. Their advertising should be regulated in the same way as cigarettes. They are now clearly being advertised to non smokers and underage groups. What does a 12 year old girl think when she sees a glamorous woman in an add with an e cig? E cigs make you glamorous? Addiction is beautiful? :-(

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm with Saffron

[Seabag]

Lowlander Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > @lowlander - Nicotine on it's own is not

> > addictive? I think you're mistaken about this.

>

> Not at all - read this.

>

> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicot

> ine-all-bad/

>

> There are many people who use nicotine

> (vapers/pipe/cigar/snuff) who aren't addicted.

Are you an ex smoker and now a vaper Lowlander ?

[uncleglen]

Lowlander- did you not read this bit...First, each time new nicotine arrives in our brain it causes the body to activate its fight or flight stress defenses. This in turn causes the immediate release of stored fats into the bloodstream, fats intended to be used to provide the instant energy needed to either fight or flee the saber tooth tiger. But there is no tiger

The extra food we consumed during our big meals each day was converted to fat and stored. It was then pumped back into our bloodstream with each new puff of nicotine. It's how we were able to skip meals and what causes many of us to experience wild blood sugar swings when trying to quit. In fact, many of the symptoms of withdrawal - like an inability to concentrate - are due to nicotine no longer feeding us while we continue to skip meals.

[uncleglen]

Try this one then....http://www.livestrong.com/article/192268-the-effects-of-nicotine-on-the-cardiovascular-system/

It might explain why a relative had to have his legs amputated due to smoking, and another relative who brought the wrath of a gynaecologist down on her when her baby was born small for dates because a quarter of her uterus blood supply was severely compromised.

It was shown many years ago that nicotine is as addictive as heroin

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/29/magazine/nicotine-harder-to-kickthan-heroin.html?pagewanted=all

I personally have great sympathy with people trying to give up. E-cigs are less harmful as they contain about 90% less carcinogens that have been found in ordinary fags but should not be advertised at all for the reasons that the OP said.

Smoking related diseases cost the NHS billions and in the 70s 80s and 90s there was a massive drive in junior and secondary schools to deter smoking. However, judging by the smoking habits of the Poles and spaniards that I know, this education did not extend much beyond these shores, and our efforts may be wiped out in the NHS.

[Lowlander]

OK, can I make it clear - tobacco, burned and inhaled, is lethal (i.e. cigarettes and rolling tobacco).

Nicotine on its own is not lethal. And if it is ingested in ways other than inhaled is far less addictive.

[jim_the_chin]

What we don't have, and I agree with Artful for this reason, is the long-term effect of vaping. Smoking as a habit has a psychological component as well as pharmacological. Does it introduce a behaviour, particularly in the young, that can morph into cigarette smoking later in life?

[Seabag]

Lowlander Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OK, can I make it clear - tobacco, burned and

> inhaled, is lethal (i.e. cigarettes and rolling

> tobacco).

>

> Nicotine on its own is not lethal. And if it is

> ingested in ways other than inhaled is far less

> addictive.

So, are you a vape user ?