second babies

[Belle]

have been thinking a bit about second babies recently - not ready for any of it any time soon but obviously if we want to have another we need to consider it at some point, though I know there's a limit to how much you can plan stuff. Anyway thought it would be interesting to hear from people here - either those with one who have decided if/when they want another, or not, and those who have more than one - whether you left a long gap or felt you should get it over with (hideous phrase, sorry) and have them v close together. Not really asking for advice as know it's v much an individual thing and dependent on luck and health etc too, but just interested to hear from different perspectives and experiences.

Also what is WITH feeling broody when rationally you don't want another one just yet? It's like some deep-seated instinct.

[Pickle]

I'm with you on the broody front, and I already have two! I seem to run into people with teeny weeny newborns everywhere I go at the moment (and I'm one of those crazy ladies that simply must make conversation with the poor unsuspecting Mum!). Must remind myself that babies are like kittens, and grow into big smelly creatures!

We've got a small gap (just under 17 months) between our two, which I fully admit wasn't entirely planned. We always anticipated a 2 year gap, things just happened a bit quicker than expected ;-) However I wouldn't change it, and am pleased things turned out the way they did. I haven't had to deal with jealousy from my eldest, as he was too little to fully realise what was going on and wasn't old enough to realise that suddenly he had to share his Mummy.

From a practical point of view, having such a small gap does mean you have a period of effectively dealing with 2 babies - nappies, needing help feeding etc. And for me it was made a bit more difficult as my son didn't walk until he was nearly 2, meaning he also needed carried up the stairs etc. On the plus side, I've had nearly 18 months in which both children have a lunchtime nap, giving me a break in the middle of the day - something you don't get the benefit of with a larger age gap. Also we hadn't really come out of the "baby" phase, so it wasn't such a big shock to have a newborn around.

Now, at nearly 3, and nearly 18 months life is almost easy. The small gap means that we can go to various groups and they both enjoy themselves, my youngest seems to be learning things (like feeding herself) a lot earlier than my son giving me a little more time to get things done in the kitchen while they're eating. They play together nicely a lot of the time, although admittedly I do have a role as "referee" a bit now when the play turns into eye gouging, hair pulling etc.! We are over the baby stage now and starting to get our independence back which is lovely.

In my family I'm the oldest, with a 4 year gap between me and my brother, and I remember very clearly the day he arrived in the house and shattered my little world - I was very aware of the need to share my parents and didn't like it one bit. Unfortunately our relationship has never been a good one. I also have a sister 10 years younger, and we get on brilliantly as the age gap is so big there was never any rivalry.

There's no perfect answer!

[Smiler]

Hi Belle,

Guess there is no "perfect" gap, just down to what suits each family and mother nature!

This is a matter close to my heart, as we have had problems "trying" for a second child for a long time (recurrent miscarriage) and are having to face up to the possibility that it might never happen.

We had hoped for a small age gap, wanting as you say to "get it over with", though must admit that much as we want a second, the prospect of further sleepless nights (when we still have these with our little one) fills us with dread!

Feel (irrationally) quite upset when people talk about "family planning", since it is not necessarily possible, as you say, though do realise that for lots of people all is fine and their desired age gap works out.

Also find it hard to know what to say when people ask if / when we will be having a second child, which happens all the time (it is Dulwich after all)! Similarly criticisms of one-child families, e.g. ("only children are all spoiled / weird / lonely / self-obsessed. their parents are selfish, career/money-obsessed etc. etc."). These fall into the same genre of questions as "when will you get a boyfriend/girlfriend?" to single people, "get married" to people dating or living together, and "have a baby" etc. etc.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a doom-monger! Or to be giving too much information. Just think that these things being hidden behind closed doors is isolating. Often think it must be really hard for people in Dulwich - with and even more so without kids - who are experiencing fertility problems.

Re. feeling broody, it is not a rational thing. I was wittering away about having "the next one" when in labour - mix of hormones/drugs/naivety probably! Agree that it is a deep-seated instinct.

[Sanne Panne]

I'm pregnant with #2 and if all goes well our children will have a 23 month age gap, which is pretty much what we had hoped for. In a way we're still adjusting to life with a baby/toddler but we're of the "you might as well get on with it" school - we love the newborn phase but the early months/years are tough (as you know) - so why not deal with the lovely but tough and sleep deprived bit within a relatively short space of time (as Smiler said, if luck is with you - sorry you've had to go through miscarriages Smiler, the thought alone breaks my heart :(). And who knows, we may find out that the tough bit only starts at age 3 when they smash each other's heads with My First Laptops, but we'll see about that when the time comes.

One of the reasons we want to "get on with it" is that I don't want to work full time before our kids go to school but we can't afford that lifestyle forever, not if we want to live in a 3 bed house with a garden one day. So the closer the children are in age, the sooner I can get back to making a relevant income again. If that's your case too, it may be worth considering a relatively small age gap. And last but not least I'm almost 36, which is really not that old but as time goes by so might the ease with which we get pregnant, although again that may just be prejudice (and probably varies tremendously between one woman and the other).

My sister and I have 4.5 years between us, it wasn't planned that way but it happened, and my mum says it was lovely as she was able to fully enjoy both babies individually, so that's another way of looking at it.

[EDmummy]

I'm with Sane Pane's mum. 4.5 between my two. They absolutely adore and dote on each other (when not play fighting - like boys do). My brother and I were 13 months apart and were in constant competition throughout childhood and adolescence. Have only become friends now we are adults. Bottom line is that it is not a science and probably completely dependent on the family you are born in to.

[Vickster]

EDmummy very reassuring to hear your experiences. As I have recently had a change in career direction, and want to wait for a while, we are realistically going to have a minimum of 3 1/2 years between. That is assuming all goes according to plan, which as many have experienced, is not always the case. I have been concerned about 4 years + gap, but it seems to have worked out perfectly for you.

[The Nappy Lady]

Smiler, just want to give you a hug.....not sure if you ever saw my long post on the recurrent miscarriage thread, but been there...and know only too well all the emotions you are feeling. Not to hijack this thread, but just had to say that first. I really hope things work out for you as they did for me in the end. xx

So - with my two, despite intending to have 2 close together, after the miscarriages and the ectopic I ended up with a 4 and a quarter year age gap and actually it has turned out to work very well. The only down side, is going back to all the baby stuff everywhere I suppose (but not complaining about it). My older child was old enough to cope well with her sister's arrival...actually dotes on her and has done all along. There is the odd moment of jealously, but she is able to articulate it which makes a huge difference as we can discuss it - we also have masses of video footage of her as a baby so she can see that we did all the stuff for her that we now have to do for baby C, and can point out she didn't have to share us with anyone (highly recommended as a way of getting them to understand)!

What's nice is that (as others have said) I have been able to enjoy each baby individually - O was at school by the time C came along, so I had lazy days cuddling and breastfeeding, or now hanging out at baby groups, without O there getting bored potentially. At home C thinks her sister is the best thing since sliced bread and aspired to be her in every way! Hence she's been super fast to sit up, crawl, walk etc. I guess so it will go on (eek).

It is scary to realise that by the time C is 5 we will have had 10 YEARS of 'this' - eek, but then again by the time C is 5 big sister will be 10 so hopefully I can bribe her to get up with her sister at weekends etc so we can have the odd lie in!! (Does that make me a bad Mummy????)!

Molly

[lillyanginger]

Son 1 and son 2 are almost 4 years apart and we are all loving it. They are now almost 12 and 8, getting on very well (most of the time), there is no direct competition and child 1 was really keen to have a sibling when it happened. No jealousy ever! He was at nursery 3 days a week while i was at work and he was used to dealing with "small"kids so he just loved having "his own". So, for us the bigger gap really worked!

Good luck with whatever you choose, I am sure you make it work...it will be fine.

[EDmummy]

"The Nappy Lady" you are not a bad mum at all. Our two are exactly the age where No. 1 can look after No. 2 in the morning and let us have a sleep in. Quite blissful at times (but not always!!).

[Pickle]

Oooooh, I can't WAIT for the day that my two are old enough to get up, help themselves to breakfast, then bring me a cup of coffee in bed! Something tells me I've got a while to wait :-S

Lovely to hear that those of you with bigger age gaps find it works well, my brother and I are the exception, not the rule! Mind you, the first time I met him he had no nappy on and wee'd all over me, not a good starting point!! My Mum had the right idea having another baby with a 10 year old in the house, I was like a mini Mum to my sister and absolutely loved having a baby in the house at that age.

[ryedalema]

My daughter will be pretty much exactly 2.5 when Cassie comes along - and I'm kind of dreading the sibling rivalry. My brother and I were/are 19 months apart and sometimes we were close and at others fought like the proverbial furry animals. Does it matter what the age gap is? Or is it down to personalities do you think? I've heard some horror stories about children my daughter's age treating the newborn like a dolly and dragging the new baby around - I guess it's constant vigilance in any case isn't it?

[Gubodge]

My two daughters are 23 months apart and get on just fine, with no rivalry evident at all yet (Eldest is now 5). Although #2's arrival was not exactly planned, we were looking for a gap nearer two years than three. My reasoning was that I wanted them to be at the same stage and be able to enjoy similar holidays and pastimes. It's worked so far. It may also have been down to subliminal jealousy of my siblings. There were only three years between the three of them, then another five before I turned up and I often felt left out as they all got to do grown up things together, whilst I was (and still am, at 39) the little kid.

[The Nappy Lady]

EDMummy - phew!! We've had the odd morning where O has gone into the baby's room and entertained her while we lay in bed next door listening to the giggles - hope it bodes well for the future!

I think personalities play a huge role in how siblings get along, more than age gap, and also suspect same sex can (but not always of course). Think if girl is the older they often want to nurture which can help but the flip side of that is that I have spent the last 14 months having to 'teach' my eldest what she is, and is not capable of!

Broodiness....I've had it since about the age of 15, no sign of it going yet. Why do you think I do nappy demos? It's just an excuse to cuddle newborns! Oh no, now I sound like a nutter!!!

Molly

[BARA]

My 2 are 13 years apart but I also have a stepdaughter who is 2 years younger than my eldest. My 2 girls now 23 and 36 have been close over the past 8 years. Grandchildren are 10 and 5 and both adore each other. Eldest(girl) takes time with her little brother, he annoys her at times but both are very protective of each other. Other grandchildren boys 13 & 15 always argueing, younger sister almost 9 dominates them both!

[snowboarder]

I'm not feeling broody (yet! - more like shudder at the thought!) but I definitely would like to have another baby at some point - not least to have a sibling for babySB, and also something in me says I would like another go at this newborn baby lark and actually try and enjoy it next time round!! I hear you tend to feel much less anxious second time round (bound to I suppose) and it won't be the complete and utter shock of first baby. What about babies three and four though....!!

Timing....hmmm..well..lets see...I need to get me to the mountains again so maybe after winter season 2010/11??!?

[BeccaL]

Hi Belle. Just to give another perspective - we've only got one child intentionally. Thought we might have another before she was born but decided we were happy as 3. Can't count the number of times i've replied 'we like the one we've got' when asked if we're going to have another one... One thing to consider (in my view anyway) is that 2 kids seems much more than twice as much work than one as well (that might seem v selfish, but there you go!) Happy to discuss our view of the only child debate! Becca

[Belle]

Really interesting posts here - lots of food for thought! I really feel for those who either want another baby and are having problems or who are sticking with one but getting those annoying comments. I have quite a few people close to me who just want the one child and I feel v defensive on their behalf when people start up about only children - I think it's so personal and also that frankly in today's society children have so many opportunities to socialise etc that lots of what people say just isn't relevant anyway. Plus it's none of their business.

I also have close friends who've had multiple miscarriages, and have seen how difficult that's been for them. I think particularly when they've already got a child and have to still get up and deal with the child etc when they're feeling terrible. think as everyone has concluded there's no 'right' answer in terms of a gap between children but it is useful to hear about what's worked, and what's influenced your decision. Sanne Panne - exactly right in terms of career impacting the decision - I'm currently a full-time mum so yes, it does make me think maybe a smaller gap would be better so I can get back to work sooner.

Like snowboarder I'd also like to have a try at enjoying the newborn phase as I really, really didn't this time around!

Anyway, loads to think about now!

[Nunhead Groover]

I have two sons - 22 months between them, I knew I wanted more than one so just went ahead hoping for a two ish year gap. Things have been great between them - no jealousy and they are already playing together really well now the youngest is nearly 9 months old. The broody thing never goes, although the lack of sleep is a great contraceptive! It has been a big old juggling act though, dealing with terrible two tantrums and a hungry baby that needs feeding has been a challenge but in the long run I think a small gap is great. My eldest has also learnt that he has to wait for things if I am busy with his younger brother and is sharing really well. The toddler groups are great for both of them and without a big gap you can do lots of activities together. I would recommend it and I also think if you want more than one just get going and worry about it later!!

[sillywoman]

17 months between daughter and son 1, then 2yrs 10 months - son 2, and 3 1/2yrs son 3. can safely say have absolutely no broodinessat all now. Too knackered and poor!

Children 1 & 2 are now 12 & 13. Like Pickle it was great when they were little - a bit like I imagine twins would be, but easier. I had a similar experience - co-ordinated nap times, liked the same playgroups, the same bath & bed time. BUT . . .

As they've got older I've regretted the close age more. Daughter struggles with no recall of any special time & quite resents that she can't remember time alone with me & Dad. It's obviously down to personality as well, but if I was doing it again, with hindsight, I'd have a 2 or 3 year age gap. From observing friends it can be harder initially (a jealous toddler is no laughing matter), but as they get older the relationship seems to be better - more protective, & jokey, less dismissive & competitive. Just a personal view - I've no real evidence for it.:))

[prdarling]

18 months between my two boys - virtually identical to Pickle's story..my two are now 2.2 and 3.8 and either get along like a house on fire or batter the living daylights out of each other, depending on mood! Was hard at first, especially as boy 2 was/is a rubbish sleeper but there was no instance of jealousy and they can't imagine being without each other. It definitely depends on personalities and whether kids are same sex (in my opinion). I have a friend with a 4 year gap and her eldest is still struggling with his baby brother - hugely jealous, won't let Mum out of sight, doesn't want to go to school and leave Mum and baby together, tantrums, aggression etc...basically a nightmare. I also think that a big gap is tricky with different sexes...another friend has a 4 year gap with a 9 year old boy and a 5 year old girl. They have no common interests - sport/computers/trains etc for one and dolls and princesses for the other and my friend is constantly organising playdates otherwise her kids tend to play by themselves. Obviously nothing you can do about this, but food for thought!