Oyster fares unfair?

[grabot]

This throws up some interesting numbers.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/single-fare-finder

For example, a peak fare from East Dulwich to Kings Cross comes in at ?4.30. However, if one travels from Peckham Rye and avoids London Bridge via some convoluted route, it is possible to travel for ?2.90. So, not only are we provided with a shabby service into London Bridge, but we have to pay a substantial premium on many journeys for the privilege.

[Cyclemonkey]

Isn't it to do with the fact that the Overground falls under TfL and the rail services to London Bridge are Southern Training a so the fare structures are different. To me that makes a case for all suburban rail within London coming under the management of TfL.

[grabot]

Absolutely and things can change with enough will. It had been highlighted previously that because of the labyrinthine fare structure in London, kids in North London got free travel ands kids in large parts of South London did not; this was remedied it just needed an agreement between TFL and the rail operators.

I'd like to see something done about adult fares now. I guess that you're a cycle commuter cyclemonkey, and we in particular, the occasional rail traveller, are hit by this.

To provide another example of this nonsense, it's actually a pound cheaper to travel from Forest Hill to Kings Cross than East Dulwich to Kings Cross.

[wulfhound]

To me that makes a case for all suburban rail within London coming under the management of TfL.

I suspect the next Mayoral contest is going to throw up some interesting stall-setting-out on that front. Labour have all-but-declared in favour already. Some interesting rumblings on the latest Bakerloo report on the ever-well-informed London Reconnections blog:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2016/extending-bakerloo-not-transport/

From the article:

"This seems to be awfully like a TfL proposal to improve south London lines to provide a more frequent all day service. Generally known as TSLO (pronounced tis-low) it stands for Turn South London Orange. The diagram appears to be part of this long awaited proposal, the details of which have until now, for the most part, been kept strictly under wraps. When it surfaces, we will cover it in detail here."

My guess is, they need to let Thameslink bed in until 2018-9, but once it does, virtually all the longer-distance trains (which TfL aren't permitted to take over) will be "through" at London Bridge. At that point, there's surely a case for TfL to and grab the remaining Southern Metro services which start and end at LB.

If that happens, they can fix the ticketing situation pretty quickly. Actually making the trains more frequent and reliable will take longer, the lead time on new trains is measured in years, but if the Overground operators can get exclusive use of the South Bermondsey & the New Cross slow tracks, that's surely a step in the right direction.

[Lowlander]

It's a mess. My office is in the City, and I walk down to North Dulwich station to get a train to London Bridge and walk across.

I pay ?712 for a yearly season ticket from North Dulwich to London Bridge. Because it's rail only, I can use it to Blackfriars, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Vauxhall, City Thameslink and Waterloo East.

That also gives me a 1/3 off off-peak tube fares and rail fares across the SE. And any railcard for ?10 rather than ?30.

If I wanted to use the bus and tube, then I would need a zone 1-2 card for ?1296

Still with me?

So I save around ?800 a year, althogh ?584 at a minimum.

[grabot]

I see that the Greens have highlighted this issue amongst others:

http://www.sianberry.london/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FaresBriefingJan2016LondonGreenParty_FINAL.pdf

East Dulwich even gets a mention! Hopefully, as Wulfhound suggested, the next mayoral election will lead to improvements.

[danielson00]

Wonder if it would be somehow possible if the Overground could be extended from Peckham to Crystal Palace via ED and Tulse Hill?

As it stands now Crystal Palace is a branch of the West Croydon service, so could it go via the above route instead of sectioning off after Sydenham? Brockley/Honor Oak Park would still get the West Croydon service.

The map here will make more sense: https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/images/london-overground-network-map.gif

As I am bored on a Sunday evening a mock up is here: http://s14.postimg.org/58j0sxcz5/Screen_Hunter_30_Jan_10_21_08.jpg I hope it explains the Crystal Palace link in more depth.

[DulwichFox]

Well trains used to run from :-

Peckham Rye - East Dulwich - North Dulwich - Tulse Hill - West Norwood - Gypsy Hill - Crystal Palace..

DulwichFox

[grabot]

Danielson00. That mocked up map is interesting. It seems that the volume of trains through East Dulwich is low and it could take a few extra trains from the Overland.

It shows how a small change can yield interesting results. I've always felt that something like that coupled with East Dulwich -> London Bridge trains running through to Charing Cross would be a game changer.

[danielson00]

Thanks, it could be a copy of the existing New Cross Gate to Sydenham section. That currently has London Bridge trains and the Overground.

Charing Cross is an excellent idea too, although it only has six platforms.

[Huggers]

From Peckham Rye there are trains directly to St Pancras, (next to Kings Cross)so it's not very convulated at all.

[grabot]

OK, well Kings's Cross was a somewhat arbitrary underground station, although your suggestion is close to useless at weekends when I do travel there. Try putting in Westminster, Liverpool Street, Angel and many more as alternative stations to demonstrate the original contention.