Rugby matters

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Fair point, yes. Just not for an ordinary open

> field runner who happens to jump when receiving a

> pass! As Kieran Reid said to the ref yesterday,

> does that mean next time I've got the ball, if I

> jump in the air they can't tackle me?

He had to jump to take the pass as it was head height - if he is then tackled low whilst still in the air he's potentially going to topple over head first.

As the referee explained, that's why it was only a penalty, no card.

I thought it was the right decision. Intentionally jumping before being tackled is another matter - although you do see it sometimes under high kicks where it looked like to catcher jumped just to take advantage of the rules. I don't think that was the case with Sinckler.

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Fair point, yes. Just not for an ordinary open

> > field runner who happens to jump when receiving

> a

> > pass! As Kieran Reid said to the ref

> yesterday,

> > does that mean next time I've got the ball, if

> I

> > jump in the air they can't tackle me?

>

> He had to jump to take the pass as it was head

> height - if he is then tackled low whilst still in

> the air he's potentially going to topple over head

> first.

>

> As the referee explained, that's why it was only a

> penalty, no card.

>

> I thought it was the right decision. Intentionally

> jumping before being tackled is another matter -

> although you do see it sometimes under high kicks

> where it looked like to catcher jumped just to

> take advantage of the rules. I don't think that

> was the case with Sinckler.

No I don't think he did it deliberately (though as you say, it was head height, he could have caught it without jumping), and the interpretation of the rules is correct, just think they need to tweaking to say if the player is so close to the ground that tackling them there isn't dangerous it's not a penalty, maybe reduce to to a scrum at best.

[JohnL]

So will Gatland keep up the physicality for the third test.

He says keep down the penalty count - but I think he has to keep the physical stuff up.

[rendelharris]

Not much to change really (if he's going to stick with the Sexton/Farrell combination, which I still don't find convincing - the SBW red possibly saved them from too much exposure) - McGrath in for Vunipola and Lawes for Wyn Jones, perhaps?

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Not much to change really (if he's going to stick

> with the Sexton/Farrell combination, which I still

> don't find convincing - the SBW red possibly saved

> them from too much exposure) - McGrath in for

> Vunipola and Lawes for Wyn Jones, perhaps?

Agreed on the exposure of Sexton Farrell - but I'd possibly limit that to Farrell, its Farrell who is the only out of position player. And he seemed weak in the tackle a couple of times on Saturday. His kicking and interaction with Sexton is worth having, and his fast pass, but it's a bit of a gamble.

Wyn Jones will start I imagine.

The referee will be key. The Dublin game which AM referred to above was thuggish for the first 20mins as ABs laid down a marker after losing in Chicago - the referee allowed it all, high tackles + forearms everywhere. Whether they play within the law on Saturday will depend upon the referee's early calls.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Not much to change really (if he's going to

> stick

> > with the Sexton/Farrell combination, which I

> still

> > don't find convincing - the SBW red possibly

> saved

> > them from too much exposure) - McGrath in for

> > Vunipola and Lawes for Wyn Jones, perhaps?

>

> Agreed on the exposure of Sexton Farrell - but I'd

> possibly limit that to Farrell, its Farrell who is

> the only out of position player. And he seemed

> weak in the tackle a couple of times on Saturday.

> His kicking and interaction with Sexton is worth

> having, and his fast pass, but it's a bit of a

> gamble.

>

> Wyn Jones will start I imagine.

>

> The referee will be key. The Dublin game which AM

> referred to above was thuggish for the first

> 20mins as ABs laid down a marker after losing in

> Chicago - the referee allowed it all, high tackles

> + forearms everywhere. Whether they play within

> the law on Saturday will depend upon the referee's

> early calls.

AWJ will only play 55 minutes then Lawes - AWJ can be really niggly and frustrate the opposition at his best.

It's Romain Poite as Ref

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11885575

[Mick Mac]

Apparently he is, after some googling:

good at referring the scrum and then supports the dominant srummaging team through the game, so the early scrums are key,

and he tends to favour the defending team at the breakdown, so I'd say there may then be fewer kickable penalties.

[Alan Medic]

I noticed in the commentary on Saturday (it wasn't obvious to me on the screen) that Sean O'Brien was posted out in the backs to help take care of Sonny Bill while he was there. This was presumably because Farrell wouldn't be able to. I still like both he and Sexton playing. There have been quite a few exciting moves in the backs.

I wouldn't call Farrell out of position Mick. He plays there for England.

As for Saturday, I'd expect casualties........

[Mick Mac]

Whoops - I thought he was a 10!

Shows how much I know.

[rendelharris]

I agree they make for an exciting combination, but given that the ABs are doubtless going to come out all guns blazing (and possibly fists flying) I'd like to see some more beef in the centres - Joseph, probably, with one of the two at 10 - Farrell edging it for superior tackling and goal-kicking ability.

[Mick Mac]

Goal kicking defo - but tackling has been weak so far this tour I thought. I know he has a reputation as a decent tackler, but I'm seeing him being brushed off / dumped on his ass, in Saturdays game

I think the combination is the right thing to do - its inventive and attacking. who dares wins. and as AM says SOB will likely be there extra cover.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Whoops - I thought he was a 10!

>

> Shows how much I know.

He is for his club (Saracens) I think

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Goal kicking defo - but tackling has been weak so

> far this tour I thought. I know he has a

> reputation as a decent tackler, but I'm seeing him

> being brushed off / dumped on his ass, in

> Saturdays game

Shane Williams used to describe himself as a speed bump

- slowing the opposition down before someone else could

pile in.

He needs someone else quite close though.

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Goal kicking defo - but tackling has been weak so

> far this tour I thought. I know he has a

> reputation as a decent tackler, but I'm seeing him

> being brushed off / dumped on his ass, in

> Saturdays game

That's the problem I think, he's a good tackling 10 but not necessarily up to a centre's job in the modern game - he was giving away two stone and three inches to SBW, for example - and so gets targeted as the weak spot in the line, which makes him look worse than he is maybe.

It's all a bit academic anyway as I'm sure Gatland will stick with the plan - after all they did win!

[JohnL]

I'm coming to the view that Vunipola should stay despite my words to the TV during his infringing.

I'd stick with Farrell at 12 to - he's really a second five eighth - which NZ should know all about as they invented it. :)

This is not Gatlands normal way however.

[Alan Medic]

It seems the team will be announced @ 6pm today. Bit weird as it will be 5am in NZ.

I think he will stick with the same even if I'd prefer McGrath to start.

[taper]

Me too on McGrath.

[Mick Mac]

I'd be amazed if Vinupola stsrts. He'll be hesitant and the ref will be looking out for him.

[JohnL]

Interesting that the All Blacks have been training all week whilst the Lions have had a few days off (bungee jumping etc). Total contrast in approach to the 3rd test in that regards.

[Alan Medic]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> It seems the team will be announced @ 6pm today.

> Bit weird as it will be 5am in NZ.

>

> It's at 8 apparently. I got 6 from the Lions official site.

[rendelharris]

All Blacks announcing their team at 6PM (BST), Lions 8PM.

[rendelharris]

Here's the ABs:

Starting XI: J Barrett, I Dagg, A Lienert-Brown, J Laumape, J Savea, B Barrett, A Smith; J Moody, C Taylor, O Franks, B Retallick, S Whitelock, J Kaino, S Cane, K Read (capt).

Replacements: N Harris, W Crockett, C Faumuina, S Barrett, A Savea, TJ Peranara, A Cruden, M Fekitoa.

No surprises. Laumape looks like an awesome force, only 5'9" but sixteen stone plus of muscle, defensive positioning needs work but like a lot of former league players his bulldozing qualities are frightening. Be interesting to see his impact with fifteen men on the field instead of fourteen.

[rendelharris]

No change for the Lions. Fair enough, though I really feel sorry for Joseph, I think he deserved at least a place on the bench. Guess there'll always be someone who loses out. Roll on Saturday, could be a cracker though I fear the ABs will come out fired up and swinging, and if they play at their best there isn't a team on earth can live with them. Twenty margin, I'd guess, hope I'm wrong. Will be watching with Kiwis so someone'll be happy...

[Mick Mac]

There you go. Vinopola, I'm surprised.

Over the whole tour I'm disappointed for Henderson. I think in future he'll be recognized as top class. Maybe a bit early for him this time.

[JohnL]

Gatters was a hooker after all :)

Given how much you have talked about discipline this week, did Mako Vunipola?s four penalties and yellow card make you think about a change in that position?

A: No. I didn?t think there was anything wrong with the first one where he has gone to charge down a kick and he has followed through. Codie Taylor does exactly the same thing in exactly the same time frame and it?s not a penalty.

If you put the two of them side by side, they are exactly the same, so Mako was a bit unlucky. The one where the referee has penalised him for going on his knee is absolutely marginal where he is competed on the ball.

He hasn?t collected Barrett?s head (with the clear out yellow card) and then there?s a scrum penalty.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-lions-qa-game-13289208